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-   -   406 critique my combo please!!! (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/406-critique-my-combo-please-57909.html)

HoosierDaddy 02-11-2005 06:30 AM

406 critique my combo please!!!
 
400 block bored 30 over
2 bolt main ARP studs
Eagle 4340 forged crank
6'' H-beam rods
Cam specs .600 255@50 and /.620 262@50 110 Howards Solid Roller
Canfield cylinder heads 2.08 intake valve 1.60 exhaust valve intake port volume 220 chamber size 65 CNC'd
Head studs
weind team g 1inch taller intake with sportsman fogger (intake not ported)
approx 11.4.1 compression
harland sharp 1.5Roller rockers
Proform 950 double pumper

On a desktop dyno how would the Hp/Tq numbers look?

I was thinking about changing the motor up a bit. Just wondering what this block can handle...I have no quams about pushing it to its limit. I hope it doesnt either :P

If anyone wants to play around with bigger cams and more compression feel free to do so and tell me the results :) Just curious about what HP im at now..and what I could be at with more cam and compression?

If I dont just change it up a little..I'm going to change it up alot. 1 Option was to Procharge it with an F1R. All priced out I would have to spend another 6k or so (cost of blower,fuel system etc. and changing up my motor to be blower friendly) and thats not even with an intercooler.

Next was to change the motor up some and go 18 degree. This I really wanted to do!

Last but not least is roots blower. 6-71? 8-71? Not sure which would work best? I just want the most HP.

If I decide not to change motor at all I'm going to go bigblock. But I would have to sell the 406 1st and its become a challenge thus far so I might have to work with what I have.

I would like to know..what would YOU do with this motor and dont say leave it alone..Pick something..be it supercharger/which one and why? More cam/compression/head work on canfields Or switch to 18 degree..roots blower..turbo..w/e just want to see what others would do?

Guesstimate price range for parts to change setup.

Thoughts? Feel Free to critisize!!:boxing: :thumbup:

Thanks for reading! Replys will be much appreciated!

stepside454 02-11-2005 07:06 AM

I didnt play with anything else, but that set up, with open, large headers , I came up with:
HP 604@6500RPMs
TQ 537 @4500 RPMs I think Id consider 825-850 cfms for normally aspirated application

firestone 02-11-2005 08:27 AM

I assume that you are not going to run this on pump gas, with that in mind here is what I would do.

Comp package AFR 210cc heads
Use a cam similar to the one you have but with around a 114 lsa
run a procharger @ around 20-25 lbs of boost with a large Air to Air intercooler that matches your combo (unless you dont mind hasseling with an air to water) if you ran around 9:1 compression this motor would get you a pretty easy 1100-1300 hp. If you wanted to get more radical, you could get more out of it. The only caution I would have would be running a stock block, I have heard of people cracking the cylinders running alot of boost on a stock block. You would be looking at the $6000 for the supercharger and another $2000 For the heads. If you decided to go with an aftermarket block, that would be around $2000 also. Pistons should be around $650.

Good luck
Adam

bracketeer 02-11-2005 01:18 PM

critique
 
You never listed what piston you are using. Oh, I forgot you haven't decided on pistons because you might go to a $6000 dollar blower. How do you know you will have 11.4 to 1 compression when you haven't bought pistons yet? Where does a 19 yr old acquire this kind of cash? Why buy a 64 cc head when you know you have to run racing fuel at 7 bucks a gallon? Your going to push it to its limits because you can simply buy another one tomorrow if it blows up?

"I" haven't decided to sell the 400 but "we" just want to see what others would do. It sounds to me like dad drag races. Go play Gran Tourismo and stop wasting people's time.

Siggy_Freud 02-11-2005 02:40 PM

You'll have to excuse my friend. He didn't take his polite pills today.

He's not forcing anyone to read or respond to the post. If you dont want to "waste" time on it . . . then stay away. No need to bash on him because of his age. A lot can be accomplished at 19.

HoosierDaddy 02-11-2005 03:43 PM

lol I better clear a few things up here. I forgot to mention my pistons. They are JE SRP Flat tops 2 valve relief. The car is mine all paid for by me I've had it since 16 and bought it with a stock 305 and 4 speed trans in it with 3.08's in back. My dad is a business man not even really into cars except to watch me go to the track and I dont really play video games either. Last time I bought a video game I was probably 15 (not that there is anything wrong with video games!). I work a full time job and go to college part time. I'm not 19 either I'm 21. I however did build this Motor and Trans combo for the car when I was 19.

Exhaust I ran was 1 3/4 x 3 hooker super comps through 3 inch dual exhaust with flowmaster 50 series. I was going LOW 7 1/8 mile with it at 93mph pump gas(NO nitrous) but my fuel system,cooling,and suspension were holding me back. I know there is more left in it. I ran a th400, B&M clutches,Hughes full manual valve body, Tci super street fighter 10 inch converter. It was stalling right around 3800-4000rpm. I'm considering running an 8" this year. Not to mention I dont think I had it tuned the BEST. I also ran 4.56's in it. I'm looking to gear change it this year to 3.73, 3.90, or 4.10 depending on new combo.

Stepside454 thanks for running the #'s atleast it eeked its way into the 600hp zone. I think the most I can get out of those heads is like 650 HP. I should have just gone 18 degree in the first place.

Also If I go procharger I would sell my intake with foggerkit and my heads. So thats a little more $ back in hand. Just about everyone has told me AFR210 so I would probably heavily consider those. I dont really need 1100-1300 hp (just yet). Nice to know it's there if I want it though. I'm really looking for a nice 800-900 hp on tap. Sick of having to fill the bottle to accomplish it. But just knowing I can crank the boost and make that much more HP is very tempting. What blower were you thinking. Like I said I was considering the F1R? Also, roughly how much HP would an F1R setup run at say 10 lbs of boost. Intercooled on pump gas OR non intercooled on race gas. Results would be about the same no? just curious..Thanks for replys guys!

HoosierDaddy 02-12-2005 07:16 PM

*chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp*

NXS 02-12-2005 07:45 PM

406 critique my combo please!!!
 
1 Attachment(s)
You lobe sep is way too wide at 110*. It should be around 106*

I did not have the flow #s for your heads or intake so i used Brodix 221cc runners and a Super Victor intake. I also put a 1050 cfm carb on it.... but the lobe sep. That's what is holding you back, you have an all out drag cam using a street/strip seperation. Another major point it the compression ratio which i raised to 14.5:1

Ktaves1971 02-12-2005 08:45 PM

I got the same feeling as you did Bracketeer. Is this guy serious?? Some of the things about this story don't even make sense. Like he acts like hes concerned about price abit but talks flippantly about 6 grand EXTRA. And why would you build a honkin motor like that and NOT be scared about the limits of the block? You better be! You know what can all happen when you start putting 800 - 1100 hp to a stock block???? And someone said he has a street style lobe seperation. Well maybe he wants to drive it to get groceries. Something about this all sounds ....... well, I dont need to say.

Good thing he said.....
"Thoughts? Feel Free to critisize!! ":boxing: :thumbup:

Just exercising the rights he gave me!:D

HoosierDaddy 02-13-2005 04:06 AM

NSX thanks that graph looks awesome makes the motor look like it has so much more potential. The car was built to be a "fast street car with the intent to drag race." I had an engine builder pick the cam..When I tell poeple the cam specs I always hear that something is not so great about it. So it was no suprise you said so. We tried to keep it "streetable" I guess. At this point I'm just going to build the fast setup and forget great streetablilty. here are the flow #'s of the canfields I have on it now.

VALVE LIFT .100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
Intake Port 71.7 144.9 206.4 252.4 288.0 301.7 306.1
Exhaust Port* 52.2 104.9 146.2 184.0 203.2 219.2 227.2



To those who think my story sounds fishy Im sorry. I'm just a 21 yr old trying to get a good combo together. I for some reason have faith in the chevy 400 block. If I break the block I'll live and buy another one if needed. I have a truck and bike I drive during nice weather as well so if something happens to the car mechanically I'm not all that screwed. Basically I'm willing to push the limits of a stock block. I know it may not make sense to everyone but that why we are all different. Atleast I put ARP studs in it and good pieces. I had the motor in the car 2 years. I now have 6 grand to spend on it. I have been saving up money from working all spring/summer/fall so its time to put that $ into the car. I live at home I can afford to do things like this now. So in some way shape or form I'm trying to get more HP than what I do now. Be it adding a blower, going bigblock, or whatever..I'm just trying to weigh my options.

tm454 02-13-2005 07:49 AM

some do stretch the truth a bit....so....
 
Stretching the truth if a BIG NO-NO a people try and catch you if they think your not honest. I'm also building a 406 for street and strip use but don't have the bread to throw on a blower....or even think about it blowing up after I'm done...I plan to run this puppy into the ground and have it carry me home!! No NOS or boost in the future for me.


Tazz


Rat Rods Rule!

Old School Nut 02-13-2005 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Siggy_Freud
You'll have to excuse my friend. He didn't take his polite pills today.

He's not forcing anyone to read or respond to the post. If you dont want to "waste" time on it . . . then stay away. No need to bash on him because of his age. A lot can be accomplished at 19.

I agree Siggy_Freud, their are some really sharp young gearheads around, but their are many that give us young guys a bad rep. it is nice tho when people talk to you like your stupid just because you are young and you can actually reply in an intelligent manner :-). Siggy here has some very informative posts up, and I like to think I have a few, I just wish people could stand back long enough to find out that some young people don't party every night and actually find something constructive to do every night, be it reading manuals/car,airplane,bike magazines/test data and reports, or picking up a wrench or a welder and getting some hands on experience. :)

-Leo-

bracketeer 02-13-2005 02:11 PM

no one's bashing him because of his age
 
No one is age bashing here. I am BS bashing. There are lots of young guys on this board who are legit.

I built my first 302 Ford at 13 yrs old.
I built my first 340 Wedge at 15 yrs old.
I built my first 327 Chev at 17 yrs old.
I built my first 1200 Harley at 18 yrs old.
But not one of them was a $10,000 motor with a $6000 blower.

His posting is full of indiscrepancies. Ktaves1971 agrees. It says "I" then "we". Refers to a mega dollar engine like its free. Flippantly refers to $6 grand. Doesn't care that all this hard work might go up in smoke. He just wants to run it to its limit. All of this from a part time worker. Give me a break.

He has SRP flat top pistons with a Canfield 65 cc head at 11.4 to 1 compression with a 2 bolt main and he wants to fire a blower on board. Give me a break.

While your at it check Holleys website. That motor with 13.1 comp only needs an 800 dbl pumper. Here is a guy who cnc'd a head and and couldn't figure out or find out his carb is too big.

He ran a 4.56 with a short gear. Ran a 4.56 where? Not even on an 1/8th mile would that combo accomplish that.

If it looks like BS.
Smells like BS.
Steams like BS.
It must be....true?

Old School Nut 02-13-2005 02:59 PM

bracketeer, I agree their are things that don't add up..........

HoosierDaddy 02-13-2005 03:05 PM

lol you guys are too funny. I honestly forgot to mention my pistons. I have my motor on ebay right now. It's probably not going to sell but oh well. I'll find out in 2 hours. Thats why I was looking into adding a blower to it or going 18 degree to it or w/e because this isnt the 1st time I listed it on ebay and I dont think its going to sell unless I am willing to take like 3k or something which I wont do. Here is the link for your viewing pleasure.

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ebaymotors/w...tem=7952890190

Still I'm not so sure what the big deal with me not worrying all that much about if i break a block or not. I'm not worrying because I dont think its going to break.I barely drive my car and I dont even take it far from home when I do. Its a local cruiser/street/strip car not my daily driver. I live real close to the track also If anything happens to it I'll go home and get the truck and trailer for it. I feel the block will hold up this year, what can I say I have faith. I cant help it if you cant see my pov. Not like I will have this motor in my car forever. So far Ive been putting a new motor in the car every 3rd season. Each one better than the previous.

And I do not have an unlimited budget. You all know my budget. I told it so people didnt go off on crazy combos that I could not afford. If I was able to get 4k for my 400 (which is taking a 2k loss from what I have in it) I would be able to put that $ with what I have and put all that $ towards a nasty bigblock setup which was what I originally wanted to too. But looks like I might be stuck with the 400.

About the $ amounts I cant help it if it I sounds unbelieveable to you or w.e Not like I'm the only 20 something yr old out there who spends all their $ on their car. I choose to save up my $ and put it into my car. I'm not going to defend myself anymore I shouldnt have to. I came here for info on what I can do to my combo, not to troll or lie like you may think.

Me and my friends get it alot. My good friend is only 20 years old and has a cherry 69 SS maro he picked up 2 yrs ago with a wimpy 350 in it for $10,500. He built a pissed off 355, solid roller, canfields, new converter, headers, carb etc the next season which ran him I would guess a good 7k. My other friend has a beautiful 70 Duster he bought for $7,500 with a lousy 318 in it. He dished out about 5k for a 340 and a good penny on new trans and converter the next season he had the car out. He had the 340 setup in the car around age 19. He's my ago now tho. Everynow and then we get some guys at a car show telling us to bring back daddys cars before they found out we snuck them out. I used to get pissed off because it is MY CAR but now I just take it as a compliment.


quick edit for bracketeer.

My car did finish the 1/8th. I ran the 4.56's with a 28x10.5 mickey thompson ET drag. I cut a 1.55 60 foot and went 7.37 @ 93mph. I was expecting to see some high 6's with a better trap but my car needs tweaking I would without a doubt be able to see some 6's on motor if I work on the combo and change come things around with (more converter too) it but as you know I'm looking for better than just high 6's n/a because I'm not too crazy about running the bottle anymore. Not to mention that was the ONLY time I went to the track last year and only made 4 runs that day 2 of which were horrible 2 of which were OK. The 950 carb worked just fine. Yea I may be able to get away with something smaller but I had no issues with running the 950.


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