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-   -   409 w engine stroker question (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/409-w-engine-stroker-question-226824.html)

diggers 12-04-2012 06:12 PM

409 w engine stroker question
 
Is it possible to install a 454 crank into a 409 I have a buddy who bought a car online the guy claims the 409 has a 454 crank. I was always under the assumption that the w engine was in a league of its own as far as interchangability goes is this correct or is it possibly?:welcome:

timothale 12-04-2012 06:23 PM

engine parts
 
My guess yould be that it probably will interchange with some work. Gm invested a lot of money in the machinery to produce that engine and normally the major dimensions, center lines stay the same for many years and many different engines built on that old machinery. , . the Ford small blocks evolved from the old Y blocks, they were built on the same machinery , the 348-409 had the top of the block angled , NOT 90* to the bore, and the heads did not have the combustion chamber, it was in the wedge.

timothale 12-04-2012 06:33 PM

Yes
 
just google 348-409 454, they say start grinding and save all that go fast 409 dust you make, sprinkle it over your small block, add vigero, water and sun. see if will grow up to be a 409.

techinspector1 12-04-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggers (Post 1619110)
Is it possible to install a 454 crank into a 409 I have a buddy who bought a car online the guy claims the 409 has a 454 crank. I was always under the assumption that the w engine was in a league of its own as far as interchangability goes is this correct or is it possibly?:welcome:

1958 was a strange year. The "W" motor, 349/409 was the predecessor to the "porcupine motor" 396/427/454 and some of the dimensions were the same on both series of motors. You can use a 396/427/454 crank in a 348/409 block. I haven't done it personally, so I don't know what clearancing would be necessary. One of the slick tricks years ago was to use a 348 crank in a 454 block. 4.250" bore / 3.250" stroke to make a 368 C.I.D. motor for a class that was determined by cubic inches and weight. The big bore allowed big heads with big valves and the short crank allowed revs to the moon (same stroke as a 327 small block).

At the same time, over in Dearborn, the Ford camp was introducing the 430 wedge, later to become the 462. These motors had some dimensions that were the same as the later 429/460 motors. Several years ago, I bolted a Toploader 4-spd to a 430 using a Lakewood scattershield that was designed for a 460. Same bellhousing bolt spacing.

Interestingly, both the 348 and the 430 had combustion chambers that were formed by crescents in the piston crowns and the cylinder heads were dead flat with no chambers at all. I wonder how both manufacturers happened to introduce the exact same design at exactly the same time????????:confused:
Can you say "industrial espionage"?

This idea of the crescent combustion chamber didn't last long. Turned out the chamber was so long that flame propogation was poor and the motors were dirty from an emissions standpoint. I believe the 348/409 was produced from 1958 to 1965 and the 430/462 was produced from 1958 to 1966. I think 1967 was the first year for emissions equipment from Detroit.

timothale 12-04-2012 07:02 PM

spy's
 
Gm had the locking steering column designed before Ford. Someone gave Ford some preliminary drawings that did not have the dimensions , ford made a prototype and the key turned the wrong way to start. They had ran the sketches upside down in the ozilid machine.

mrhp 12-04-2012 07:15 PM

It is cheaper and easier to buy an Eagle stroker crank for a 409. You can get it in 3.76 and 4.0 strokes. Ready to drop in. You can use a 6.135 rod with this combo as well as the 6.385 and longer rods if you like with off the shelf Ross pistons. A small amount of clearancing was needed for my 4 inch arm in my 09 with H beam rods. :thumbup:

69 widetrack 12-04-2012 07:27 PM

Thanks guys...I would have thought NO, I knew about the combustion chamber and that the 348 and 409 where the fore runner to the 396, 427 and 454 but thought that they where entirely different animals. This is valuable and good information.

Always loved the valve covers on those 348 and 409 engines, they just look mean.

Ray

diggers 12-04-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69 widetrack (Post 1619146)
Thanks guys...I would have thought NO, I knew about the combustion chamber and that the 348 and 409 where the fore runner to the 396, 427 and 454 but thought that they where entirely different animals. This is valuable and good information.

Always loved the valve covers on those 348 and 409 engines, they just look mean.

Ray

Same car 69 wide track as the door handle car guy claimed it has a 454 crank didnt know if that was even possible I was with you thought they were totaly diffrent animals.Engine vibrates really bad its like you are riding around on a paint shaker think it needs to come apart and get balanced!

mrhp 12-04-2012 07:41 PM

Yes, will need balance job and possibly balance weights recontoured to help balance job.

diggers 12-04-2012 07:44 PM

yea i told him make sure he has a 454 balancer and fly wheel on it and the dip stick didnt put the 409 balancer on it if thats even possible:D


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