409 w engine stroker question - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
409 w engine stroker question

Is it possible to install a 454 crank into a 409 I have a buddy who bought a car online the guy claims the 409 has a 454 crank. I was always under the assumption that the w engine was in a league of its own as far as interchangability goes is this correct or is it possibly?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:23 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: General Motors transmissions Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: near Yellowstone park
Posts: 4,039
Wiki Edits: 27

Thanks: 10
Thanked 208 Times in 195 Posts
engine parts

My guess yould be that it probably will interchange with some work. Gm invested a lot of money in the machinery to produce that engine and normally the major dimensions, center lines stay the same for many years and many different engines built on that old machinery. , . the Ford small blocks evolved from the old Y blocks, they were built on the same machinery , the 348-409 had the top of the block angled , NOT 90* to the bore, and the heads did not have the combustion chamber, it was in the wedge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to timothale For This Useful Post:
69 widetrack (12-04-2012)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:33 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: General Motors transmissions Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: near Yellowstone park
Posts: 4,039
Wiki Edits: 27

Thanks: 10
Thanked 208 Times in 195 Posts
Yes

just google 348-409 454, they say start grinding and save all that go fast 409 dust you make, sprinkle it over your small block, add vigero, water and sun. see if will grow up to be a 409.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:36 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,263
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 610
Thanked 770 Times in 660 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggers View Post
Is it possible to install a 454 crank into a 409 I have a buddy who bought a car online the guy claims the 409 has a 454 crank. I was always under the assumption that the w engine was in a league of its own as far as interchangability goes is this correct or is it possibly?
1958 was a strange year. The "W" motor, 349/409 was the predecessor to the "porcupine motor" 396/427/454 and some of the dimensions were the same on both series of motors. You can use a 396/427/454 crank in a 348/409 block. I haven't done it personally, so I don't know what clearancing would be necessary. One of the slick tricks years ago was to use a 348 crank in a 454 block. 4.250" bore / 3.250" stroke to make a 368 C.I.D. motor for a class that was determined by cubic inches and weight. The big bore allowed big heads with big valves and the short crank allowed revs to the moon (same stroke as a 327 small block).

At the same time, over in Dearborn, the Ford camp was introducing the 430 wedge, later to become the 462. These motors had some dimensions that were the same as the later 429/460 motors. Several years ago, I bolted a Toploader 4-spd to a 430 using a Lakewood scattershield that was designed for a 460. Same bellhousing bolt spacing.

Interestingly, both the 348 and the 430 had combustion chambers that were formed by crescents in the piston crowns and the cylinder heads were dead flat with no chambers at all. I wonder how both manufacturers happened to introduce the exact same design at exactly the same time????????
Can you say "industrial espionage"?

This idea of the crescent combustion chamber didn't last long. Turned out the chamber was so long that flame propogation was poor and the motors were dirty from an emissions standpoint. I believe the 348/409 was produced from 1958 to 1965 and the 430/462 was produced from 1958 to 1966. I think 1967 was the first year for emissions equipment from Detroit.

Last edited by techinspector1; 12-04-2012 at 06:55 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to techinspector1 For This Useful Post:
69 widetrack (12-04-2012)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:02 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: General Motors transmissions Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: near Yellowstone park
Posts: 4,039
Wiki Edits: 27

Thanks: 10
Thanked 208 Times in 195 Posts
spy's

Gm had the locking steering column designed before Ford. Someone gave Ford some preliminary drawings that did not have the dimensions , ford made a prototype and the key turned the wrong way to start. They had ran the sketches upside down in the ozilid machine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
It is cheaper and easier to buy an Eagle stroker crank for a 409. You can get it in 3.76 and 4.0 strokes. Ready to drop in. You can use a 6.135 rod with this combo as well as the 6.385 and longer rods if you like with off the shelf Ross pistons. A small amount of clearancing was needed for my 4 inch arm in my 09 with H beam rods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:27 PM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 610 Times in 554 Posts
Thanks guys...I would have thought NO, I knew about the combustion chamber and that the 348 and 409 where the fore runner to the 396, 427 and 454 but thought that they where entirely different animals. This is valuable and good information.

Always loved the valve covers on those 348 and 409 engines, they just look mean.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Thanks guys...I would have thought NO, I knew about the combustion chamber and that the 348 and 409 where the fore runner to the 396, 427 and 454 but thought that they where entirely different animals. This is valuable and good information.

Always loved the valve covers on those 348 and 409 engines, they just look mean.

Ray
Same car 69 wide track as the door handle car guy claimed it has a 454 crank didnt know if that was even possible I was with you thought they were totaly diffrent animals.Engine vibrates really bad its like you are riding around on a paint shaker think it needs to come apart and get balanced!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Yes, will need balance job and possibly balance weights recontoured to help balance job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
yea i told him make sure he has a 454 balancer and fly wheel on it and the dip stick didnt put the 409 balancer on it if thats even possible
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SBC 409 camshaft question MT69chevelle Engine 4 03-22-2011 03:46 PM
409 / 348 question dennys1934 Engine 4 08-02-2010 07:29 PM
Chevy 409 Engine build Huneycutt Engine 1 04-16-2010 05:50 PM
409 stroker combos 3.760, 4.00 or 4.25? Jared Engine 3 01-21-2005 05:16 PM
Chevy Engine 409 93_406cobra Engine 2 06-16-2004 07:53 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.