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Old 09-07-2008, 11:00 PM
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413 over heating at idle

I have a 413 sitting in a b body. I put the engine in a couple of weeks ago and have run into some bugs. I used a thermostatic fan clutch off of another engine. The clutch is only a few months old. I am over heating at slow speeds and idle. the engine runs at 190 at 75 mph. I don't hear the fan making a rushing noise at slow speed. I may have a defective part. Anyone know a way to test the fan clutch? Or should I just say screw it and throw a new heavy duty clutch on there and see what happens.

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Old 09-07-2008, 11:16 PM
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Do you have a shroud installed?? If so then probably a new clutch is what you need. If not, install a shroud and that should solve your problem.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:42 AM
F&J F&J is offline
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Quote:
I don't hear the fan making a rushing noise at slow speed. I may have a defective part. Anyone know a way to test the fan clutch?
From my own experiences, the thermo type fan clutch won't kick in at those "cool" temps (190). Somewhere there must be a temp spec for that clutch. Maybe a genuine Mopar shop manual? I'd bet the clutch would not kick in until it was over 220.

I know you can manually "turn on the clutch" by disconnecting the bimetallic spring at the front, then turn the shaft. If the clutch part is OK, you will feel the drag come back on.

Testing the accuracy of the spring would be a challenge.

When I worked for Mopar in the mid 70s, we were told the A/C mopar cars used a "slower" water pump to allow the water to stay in the radiator a little longer for better cooling. Thermostats are needed for sure.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:04 AM
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The issue is: The temp jumps from 190 to 210 while slowing down for an exit or a light and after 2 or 3 consecutive traffic lights my temp is rocketing toward the 240 range and I don't like that. I do have a shroud. It has a new 160 degree thermostat. I added water wetter, and the engine has about 500 miles on it since a freash rebuild.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:15 AM
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I would try a thermostat that has a higher temp like 195.. That itself will hold the coolant in the rad longer. With a 160 its staying open...
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:24 AM
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I had a 195 degree thermostat in it and the temp would go over 250 and when I shut the engine off it would overflow a pint of coolant on the ground.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:49 AM
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From your last 2 posts, the fan clutch is not the problem at all. A thermo type clutch is not designed to act that quickly as you come off a highway ramp.

Something else is wrong.

Condition of the radiator internal tubes??? are they looking like white corrosion building up and partially blocking the flow?


Also check the radiator all over from the front side with your hand as it starts to warm up. look for hot spots and more importantly, cool spots. That could mean internal blockage.


Sure, you can go with a flex fan that pulls at lower speed, or even switch to a non-thermo clutch hub that kicks in at low speed, but I feel you would be covering up a different problem IMO
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:02 AM
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The radiator is less than 2 years old. cooling area is 26 1/2 inches wide 17 inches tall and about 2 inches thick. It has always had 50/50 mix in it and was flushed every 15000 miles. It looked clean when i had the cap off. This problem has been driving me crazy because I know all of the parts are new. The factory style fan clutch is supposed to start engaging at 170 degrees air temp. whitch is about 30 degrees cooler than the coolant temp. If the coolant is at 200 degrees, when I come to a stop the clutch should already be dragging slightly. according to the fan manufacturer.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:21 AM
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If everything is essentially new, perhaps the gauge/sender combination is mis-matched, or perhaps one of them is shot. I had a chevy with an electric temp gauge, and the car was always running hot. . . . . . . At least it seemed that way. Changing out the sender took care of my "overheating" problem.

Pat
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparman440
The radiator is less than 2 years old. cooling area is 26 1/2 inches wide 17 inches tall and about 2 inches thick. It has always had 50/50 mix in it and was flushed every 15000 miles. It looked clean when i had the cap off. This problem has been driving me crazy because I know all of the parts are new. The factory style fan clutch is supposed to start engaging at 170 degrees air temp. whitch is about 30 degrees cooler than the coolant temp. If the coolant is at 200 degrees, when I come to a stop the clutch should already be dragging slightly. according to the fan manufacturer.

"start engaging at 170" that does not sound right to me.

My own experiences with thermo clutches is that there really is no "start to drag"; they are on or off. I say that because when they kick in, it was quiet one second, and roaring instantly. ...and i've never had one kick in anywhere near that temp. The ones I have seen on overheating cars seem to kick in darn near the point of boiling over.

If you want to try something to prove/disprove a clutch problem, borrow a aftermarket flex fan, or, find an older solid hub stock mopar fan to try. Sure beats going crazy wondering about that clutch.

One question; you say the rad was new and run for 2 years....with what motor? Is this a problem that arrived with just a motor swap???
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:11 PM
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During the rebuild, did you remove the block core plugs and hot-tank the engine? A 413" has lots of years and miles on it. On one I did, I had to rod the block out by hand and got a gallon of rust and crud out of an engine which had gone though a "dishwasher" in the machine shop.

thnx, jack vines
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:15 PM
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Flame speed is very slow at idle transferring more heat to the cooling
system. Try increasing initial ignition advance and reduce centrifugal
to get the total back where you want it and see if this helps.
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:29 PM
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Thanks for all of the help guys. I put a hotter thermostat in it 195 and put on a flex fan. I drove it around in stop and go traffic for a half hour in the 90+ degree heat of the day. It never broke over 210.
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparman440
I had a 195 degree thermostat in it and the temp would go over 250 and when I shut the engine off it would overflow a pint of coolant on the ground.
Coolant should never be vented to the ground. If it is, that means that as the system cools air is drawn back in. Two events occur with this:

1) The coolant level is going down by the amounts vented out.

2) The lost coolant is being replaced by air which at cooling system operating temperatures is very corrosive to the metal parts of the inside of the cooling system.

Your system should vent to a puke tank such that there is always a level of coolant in the tank so the end of the vent tube is submerged. That way when the engine cools, it draws coolant rather than air back in the system keeping the coolant level in the radiator properly full and not allowing air into the system.

You said the radiator is 2 years old, that's plenty of time for corrosion to be at work, contemporary systems using copper/brass lead soldered radiators made in Mexico, China, or India are far more subject to corrosion than good old Made in America radiators were. It's gotten to be an all too familiar problem. Aluminum made anywhere just goes up in "smoke" when air gets in there. Except for DexCool (which has it's own problems) none of the glycol based coolants on the market are as good as they need to be. For dilution of the coolant you need to use distilled water, not tap water, that goes a ways toward reducing the modern chemical reaction rate going on in there.

You also need to note those who don't think the fan is working. Typically this problem goes with insufficient air flow at low speeds. But these days the problem is getting plenty of "help" from other issues I mentioned.

Bogie
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