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Old 02-07-2008, 08:07 PM
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427 or 434 or ...?

Hey all, new here.

Have a question. Is it worth the money spent on aftermarket parts to make a 434 or 427 stroker SBC? I know a 434 would most likely need custom pistons/rods, but i'm not too sure. Has anyone done it before? How much would machine work run for a 434? If a 434 is too exotic, what about a 427? How much customization is needed to achieve this CID with a small block, and would you suggest an after market (dart, motown) block for it? I just got myself a 79 Nova rolling, and i'm deciding on what exactly I want to start building this summer. It'll be a street car most of the time, but would like to bump it up to brackets when I get it all broken in. I know I want to get in the range of 550+ WHP, if that is even possible. Thanks.

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Old 02-07-2008, 08:42 PM
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I would start with a 421 or a 427 the 434 is going to bore the block to the limit from the start. You need a small base circle cam or the rods will hit it or go with a +.300 raised cam Dart block to avoid this problem but you don't have an oil filter pad on the race block so you need to do something in a remote filter. We have a 427 SBC in a fox body mustang on true 10.5 tires that runs 5.30s on one kit at 3000 pounds so you can make good power with one but go to a machine shop that has built a few in the past.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:57 PM
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Yeah if you are going to build a stroker with 421 or 434 cubes then you are going to need a quality block. The Stock GM 400's just weren't designed to deal with those kind of forces.

I think the little M is the way to go as well, but if you purchase a kit that is stroker clearanced than you shouldn't have any problems especially if you get the Dart block.

You can get a quality kit for reasonable prices from www.competitionproducts.com they have cheap claimer stuff all the way up to the extreme racing high end stuff. You will have to decide what you are comfortable with. But anything over 450 HP or so will probably twist a GM 400 block in half.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:57 PM
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How much different is the 427 than a 434 other than the fact it's 7 less cubes?
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:01 PM
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Not very feasible with a 350 but is very possible with a SBC 400.
400 Stock Bore w/ 4.00" stroke crank = 427ci
400 + .030 Over Bore w/ 4.00" stroke crank = 434ci
400 + .060 Over Bore w/ 4.00" stroke crank = 440ci

As you can see, the 427 would be your cheaper alternative but finding a used block that don't need bored is almost impossible. The 440ci is a bit much for street because of the bore size, cooling may be a problem. IMHO, my favorite is the 409. It uses the stock stroke crank (3.750) so rod/cam/block clearances are no problem and bored .040 but it all depends on what you are ultimately wanting. If you are building it for the street/strip, the factory block is adequate for this build. If you are building for eventual bracket racing or heavy shots of nitrous, an aftermarket block is the only way to go. The horsepower is in the heads anyway. Invest in a good quality aftermarket head such as Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, etc. (stay away from Pro Comp) parts.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:03 PM
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To make 550 SAE wheel HP you are going to spend big bucks, as that's what my 454 small block wheels at N/A. You will have to have an aftermarket block and if you stick with standard 23 degree heads they will need to flow in the 340+ range or better. You will want a solid roller with AT LEAST 250+ duration and over .650 lift.

For that HP level you may just want to consider going with the LSX components. In the long run you'll make more power with less camshaft.

A mild 421 with a supercharger would be even easier and more streetable.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Not very feasible with a 350 but is very possible with a SBC 400.
400 Stock Bore w/ 4.00" stroke crank = 427ci
400 + .030 Over Bore w/ 4.00" stroke crank = 434ci
400 + .060 Over Bore w/ 4.00" stroke crank = 440ci

As you can see, the 427 would be your cheaper alternative but finding a used block that don't need bored is almost impossible. The 440ci is a bit much for street because of the bore size, cooling may be a problem. IMHO, my favorite is the 409. It uses the stock stroke crank (3.750) so rod/cam/block clearances are no problem and bored .040 but it all depends on what you are ultimately wanting. If you are building it for the street/strip, the factory block is adequate for this build. If you are building for eventual bracket racing or heavy shots of nitrous, an aftermarket block is the only way to go. The horsepower is in the heads anyway. Invest in a good quality aftermarket head such as Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, etc. (stay away from Pro Comp) parts.
What about Dart heads? Aluminum? I heard Aluminum expands as well, not sure if this is true, or if it is, if it even matters that much.

@Double_v23..
You're saying that if I find a decent stroker kit, I won't even have to modify the block (if I go with aftermarket).

Excuse my ignorance on this subject, i'm still learning on this bit. I don't know too much about modifying blocks. =)
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdreex
@Double_v23..
You're saying that if I find a decent stroker kit, I won't even have to modify the block (if I go with aftermarket).

Excuse my ignorance on this subject, i'm still learning on this bit. I don't know too much about modifying blocks. =)

Don't worry everyone starts somewhere...Yes that is correct, the only thing you would have to do is get the cylinders honed to match the individual pistons and then assemble it. And some places can sell you the block, rotating assembly, and do the finishing machine work for you, all it takes is a little cash.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:13 PM
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[QUOTE=mrdreex]What about Dart heads? Aluminum?

Sorry, I did leave Dart out of the equation there. As far as aluminum vs. cast, aluminum is lighter, transfers heat better and is easier to machine (port work).
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_v23
Don't worry everyone starts somewhere...Yes that is correct, the only thing you would have to do is get the cylinders honed to match the individual pistons and then assemble it. And some places can sell you the block, rotating assembly, and do the finishing machine work for you, all it takes is a little cash.
So it would be cheaper to do it myself? (wouldn't be completely myself, I would have some help) I think it would be better to do it that way, just so I can learn a lot more than just having someone do it for me.

Appreciate all the help given here, i'm pretty much going on stuff I have researched, and not actually gotten hands on. That will change soon, so things will be easier to understand.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:21 PM
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[QUOTE=S10 Racer]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdreex
What about Dart heads? Aluminum?

Sorry, I did leave Dart out of the equation there. As far as aluminum vs. cast, aluminum is lighter, transfers heat better and is easier to machine (port work).
What kind of heads would I be looking at? 2.02/1.60? What does the 23 degree specification refer to? again, please excuse my ignorance, lol. i'm probably not even making any sense, but I want to know.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:22 PM
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just to give you an idea of what I consider a good deal for a mid (550hp) to high(650HP) performance street driven Naturally aspirated shortblock build.


DART little M block stroker clearanced and bored/honed to final size 2975.00
Howards Racing Components Forged 434 CI rotating assembly fully balanced 1995.00

This includes everything you would need to build a very capable big inch small block and howards make excellant quality parts at a very competitive price. You can be sure that this bottom end can take anything you throw at it. You are looking at almost 5G's plus shipping though, but big cubes cost money plain and simple.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:24 PM
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Just to be clear my previous post only refers to the shortblock
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_v23
Just to be clear my previous post only refers to the shortblock
figured as much. what all comes in a rotating assembly? cam, pistons, bearings, what else?
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:27 PM
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Haven't there been issues with the lack of signifigant crank overlap with the 4 inch stroke sbc cranks,or is it just an old wives tale?

Shane
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