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Old 06-27-2005, 06:52 PM
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427 Big block blew up, need a few suggestions.

Hi, I've been searching the board for the past few hours and haven't found what I'm looking for. (I may not be the best searcher). Ok, anyways heres my story. Hopefully someone can help me out.

I had a 427 Big Block in my 78 z28 camaro. It has a turbo 400 transmission and 3.73 gears in the rear end. Not really sure about any performance parts on it but in the 1/4 with slicks I was running 12.9 with bad 60 foot times. Best ticket I could get was a 12.7 with another driver if that helps at all. Also ran a 11.9 with a 150 shot of nitrous. The engine was forged crank and pistons, but bored 60 over, and the crank was turned 30 over. So really not any room for improvement.

Ok, I was driving home about a month ago when I realized that the water temperature shot up to about 270 or so. I immediatly stopped the vehicle and pulled over since this was obviously very unusual. When I looked into the engine compartment I noticed that the pulley attaches to the harmonic balancer had basically shredded apart and all the belts had lost tension and hence why the water temperature had shot up. I called a tow truck and had it towed to a shop where I had done some business. When we got it there off the truck we started to notice a slight rod knock. I'm thinking ok, not a big deal. I got a trailer and towed it over to a friend's shop. Once there I pulled the engine out and disassembeled. I noticed that all the main cap bearing had spun. By now I was thinking that this was just getting worse.

I took the block into the machine shop along with the crank and pistons and rods. Got a call back today and the news got even worse. The block was cracked by one of the head bolts and the crank was cracked in 5 seperate places. I'm thinking that I'm not sure if this could have happened from the one incident. Maybe it already had problems from when I bought it. Ok, so now I pretty much need a new engine. I've gotten this far. Here is where my problem starts.

The car is obviously already set up for a BBC. I'd sort of lik e to keep it that way. My budget for this whole thing is about 2000-2400 tops. I know not exactly the easiest thing but being 25 I don't exactly have the most money laying around.

Finding a 454 in good condition down here in the middle of nowhere in texas isn't exactly the easiest thing. One of the guys I work with also works at Advance and they have a 454 long block from there that I could pick up warrantied for about 1500 or so. I was thinking I could pick this up and throw a new cam in it and be set. I'd like to keep around the same performance since I really enjoyed the way the car drived and all that.

My other option I was thinking was that I could pick up a complete 350 for 150$. Take that, disassemble it, magnaflux it and find out the clearances for everything that is in it already and either build a 350 or possibly a 383 and probbaly be a lot more succesful on the budget end of the deal. I've been pricing stuff around on summit and jegs and this seems possible but I have no idea on what parts to get or what I would even need. While I can assemble/disassemble fine parts selection I'm not too good at. I would like to be able to continue using nitrous on maybe 1-3 passes a month total, if that.

Basically what I'm asking for is some help on parts selection or advice if anyone has dealth with a longblock from an autoparts store. Part of it just seems sort of "fishy" to me to say. I was looking at getting some of the Vortec heads from Scoggin Dickey that run about 650 for the pair and pair it up with a Vortec performer rpm intake and maybe a Xtreme Enegery 274 cam. Almost like what they did here at

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/81998/index.html

The problem being with that I'm just not sure if I could get the short block built for less than what they got one for with all the machine work and such that would need to be done.

Again, I thank you for your time and patience with me for this. I'm really hating losing my camaro while it's sitting broke in a garage.

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Old 06-27-2005, 07:08 PM
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If the advance motor comes with a 1 yr warranty use it. Put you cam and heads on it. Then when 10 months rolls around spray the juice to it and go get another

or find a 5.7 vortec in the salvage yard and slap a set of 1.6 rockers on it along with some headersand nice intake. driving well you might make a 13 sec ride.

Sell you BBC intake & headers to recoupe some $$$
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:48 PM
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If I went any other route than a BBC would the tubro 400 and my headers match up to them? Also since the pistons and rods are still good, might it be a decent thing to do to just get a 454 block and re-use my pistons and rods?
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Old 06-27-2005, 07:54 PM
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it's all up to you. the tranny will work but not the headers.

buy a 350 $900

add cam with 480" lift $120 (1020)

add headers $100 ($1120)

add 144 blower $1400 ($2520)

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Old 06-27-2005, 08:06 PM
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bb vs sb

If you build a 350 after owning a 427 you will be sadly disappointed. I refuse to use any sb other than a 400. I have several stowed away. The 454 may give you more torque and hp than you had before.
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Old 06-27-2005, 08:46 PM
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Sounds like your only a block and a 427 crank away from being back to where you were...? A new crank can be had for $250 or less (not new but ready to install)... A good 2 bolt block that can take a .060 over bore can be had fairly easy...? (I have a good .030 over block that would go .060 you can PM if you like...?)

Also I agree with (bracketeer) once you`ve had a BBC you wont be happy going back... Also everything is setup for a BBC and by far it would be cheaper to continue that way IMPO...


Also here is something to look at...?

Last edited by Bumpstick; 06-27-2005 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:08 PM
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if you can find a block, parts are priced fair here.

http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...?CategoryId=76

if it was me, i would go with another BBC, buy a beater / daily driver till you can build what you want.


nothing worse than settling 4 what you can afford or buy right now, just to get bye, and then being disappointed with the end result of all the cash you spent to get something you really didn't want in the 1st place, a strong SBC will cost about the same in the end, imo when you figure all the parts to go from a SBC to BBC, headers, distributor, intake ect. and then no extra cash to buy / build what you Really wanted in the 1st place, because you settled for less than you really wanted.

a guy should have a dependable back up vehicle, just to get him by if needed. i learned early in my 20s to have a backup vehicle. it's hard to find one when you need one the most, plan a head.....

i bought a straight ole rust free 83Ford F150 with a 300 straight 6cylinder & a 4 speed, 2 wheel drive P/U , it did have a rebuilt 6 and new clutch, pressure plate & throw outbearing and new tires new brakes & shocks and exhaust, i thought the 71yr ole man that sold it to me, and that lives 3 houses from me(who also had a stroke 3mons earlier) was BSing me, butt he had all the paper work on the fresh work, YES it's the one that my wife and kids call ugly. but it's my back up, i could drive anywhere, it's low geared and no A/C, and sucks gas like a 4X4 BIG BLOCK DULLIE, cost me $900.

Nothing against a SBC or a BBC, but sounds like you liked that 427 BBC.

just my opinion
Mustangsaly
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:53 PM
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Yah, will probably go with the BBC. I didn't realize that so much went from the change from bbc - sbc. To get back to a 427, since I have the pistons and such already. What type of crankshaft would I need or is it just a 454 crank with shorter rods?

Oh, and by all means, this isn't my only form of transportation. Have a 2005 pontiac sv6 for that (yes, its a grocery getter for the family). I just bought this camaro on my way back from Iraq and finally have the time and sometimes the money to work on it. Thanks for the advice so far all.
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:13 PM
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you can use a 396 crank in a 454 block to get a 427
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:25 PM
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You're far better off going with abigblock IMO. Use your heads, cam, and lifters if they were removed and marked to be put back in the same location. Rockers, pushrods, fuel pump, intake and carb, distributor etc.

The differences between the 454 and 427 are in the crankshaft stroke, pistons, balancer and flywheel. The block and rods are the same between the two engines.

Chances are your 427 heads are small combustion chamber design which would probably work good on a rebuilder 454 with flattop pistons. Find out what pistons were used in the 454 and also what size combustion chambers are in your heads to figure what the compression would be. If the 454 doesn't perform as good as you like add the nitrous you already have.
A big plus to the 454 is it has a warranty.


Changing to a smallblock might cost you more- being that you'll need to build the shortblock, buy heads, cam-valvetrain, intake, headers, fuelpump, flexplate, valvecovers, accessory brackets, etc.
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:26 PM
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Sounds like you had some serious detonation when the car overheated.
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:04 PM
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What i would do is call Howards Cams. They have brand new 427 forged cranks for real cheap. Also i would think they can do it cheaper than everybody else as far as whatever parts you need. 920-233-5228. Talk to Robert. If you doubt it, go look at Competition Products site. Parent company.They seem to be tuned to us normal people.Just trying to save some money on the same stuff we all buy frm everyone else.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilSmoke
What i would do is call Howards Cams. They have brand new 427 forged cranks for real cheap. Also i would think they can do it cheaper than everybody else as far as whatever parts you need. 920-233-5228. Talk to Robert. If you doubt it, go look at Competition Products site. Parent company.They seem to be tuned to us normal people.Just trying to save some money on the same stuff we all buy frm everyone else.

I just really want to thank you for this part right here. While they didn't have these on hand anymore they directed me to Shaw City Machine at 559-275-2001 that still has them and I think are selling at a great price. Easily way below anything I could get here. Things are starting to look up a bit. I found a std 454 block for $250 from which I can tell is a great price so I'm going to jump onto that. I figure I can just get some new pistons, rods and crankshaft and make an entire new bottom end. As for this part here. Can anyone recommend what to use for the piston/rod combination. I'm looking at trying to keep it under 600-700 dollars for the 2 of them which I'm not quite sure is possible. The engine will see nitrous use so I'm guessing forged pistons is a must.

*edit*

Oh, the heads are casting number 336781 and have 118cc chambers with 256/114cc ports if it helps with pistons. I have no clue whatsoever on what type of pistons to get to keep this vehicle streetable in terms of compression ratio. Thanks

Thanks alot again for all the help that everyone has given me so far. You guys have easily saved me $$$ even on people to buy stuff from. Thanks again.

Eric

Last edited by esears; 06-28-2005 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:34 PM
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Inspect all your old parts (rods, pistons, crank, etc) and then install them into the 454 block. You most likely will need to bore the 454 block to match the old pistons. If you're lucky, you could use the old pistons and just turn the crank, resize the rods, install new bearings and rings, and freshen up the heads.

Of course, if you can buy new pistons it would be better.

781's are good heads, but 118cc chambers are big for a 427. However, low cr is good for N20!

Shoot for a 220-230 degree cam @ 0.050", 8.5 to 9.0:1 cr, and a 150 hp shot of N20.

Last edited by 454C10; 06-28-2005 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:49 PM
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Sorry, I missed the bad crank part. So just get a 427 crank kit from you local auto parts (crank and bearings) or a buy used 427 crank on e-bay.

FYI, If you go with a 454 crank then you will also need a new externally balanced flywheel and balancer.
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