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428 ?

5K views 26 replies 7 participants last post by  jturner 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi,.... 1st year sold 65 ..."says on pink(" 67 Streamline travel home )

Has interesting valve cover sticker that reads :

Serial# 1051-A24KT-

Type-428 GP 6001-HW

Options-SO-940


But also has one on one of the the steps going in that reads

serial# 3469-R10KT

Type C4PD-6001-HW

Options SO-3071

Can anyone make sense of any of these numbers.

I would appreciate it very much and Thank You!

P.S. Says DIF and big S on intake and DIF Block.....But I need to clean it to check for other #'s on the block I guess?.....but definitely is a FORD BIG BLOCK and reminds me of some of the 390's late Dad built on the living room floor....Open the windows!:cool:!

Jaysen
 

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#5 · (Edited)
....Thanks Inspector! ..and yes I first noticed that it was indeed a FORD truck platform but.....?F750 with 10,000 Gross weight If I I remember correctly.....anyway awesome how you spied the grill and upside down,and I thought I was cleaver by finding the 428 GP-.. sticker on the valve cover.

Thanks for that info, I will go ahead and post the BUNCH of other numbers I found on the front of the block and exhaust manifolds and side of engine.

Am I supposed to look for a counter balance on the front of the crank ?....I only see and feel a large flat smooth pulleys on the back side and very large end shaft before that coming through the block.

My newbie theory on this is this.Maybe they only used those counters for highest revving engines? As pointed out by BUZZ about the motor home possibly having the "428" big bore/short stroke 427" or small bore/long stroke 428" ..........and but only the fast FORD cars that these blocks went in ?

The valve cover sticker also says: FORD INDUSTRIAL ENGINE U.S. PATENT OFFICE

". Ford FE engines, distributor in front, 332" - 428" size have a peculiar design wherein the valve cover doesn't just sit on the head, but also partly on the intake manifold like this: Yes Distributor way out front and, If I remember correctly does not the 390 also fit into the mix( interchangeably?) with intake manifold part of the head also? Thank you for your help.

I will post the other #'s tonight .....Thank all!
 
#4 · (Edited)
. Hello... welcome... where are you located? ( Ours off to right --> )


. Ford FE engines, distributor in front, 332" - 428" size have a peculiar design wherein the valve cover doesn't just sit on the head, but also partly on the intake manifold like this:




. When someone ordered a vehicle with a Ford 7.0L engine, they often didn't know whether it would be the big bore/short stroke 427" or small bore/long stroke 428" until it actually arrived... most likely the slower turning 428", torquier, more truck like engine would be used in a motorhome...
.
 
#6 · (Edited)
428?

Hi, I was searching for numbers ( Realize I have to measure the stroke as described at the below link.....So I rub the grit down to read : C7ME-A ! Not so fast boy!....( I understand that still does not mean 428, but it does seem to go with the sticker on the valve cover and the mysterious pink slip that reads model year 1967 ....

C7ME-A '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck
'67-'70 428 c.i.d. 428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet


Ford FE Engine Block Casting Numbers - FORDification.com


....Still not sure until I follow the yellow brick road:) :

" NOTE - The information presented here was gathered from a variety of sources. If you see (or don't see) anything that needs corrected or added, please e-mail me.

Entries below are what it COULD be, not necessarily what it is!

FYI - A majority of FE blocks have either a '352' or a backwards '501' cast into the front of the block. With the exception of a few hi-performance 428 blocks, most all other FE blocks are identical externally. That is:

CID STROKE
352 3.50"
360
390 3.78"
406
427
410 3.98"
428


You generally CANNOT tell what CID an FE engine
is simply by looking at casting numbers!

The only way of differentiating between them, since there are no external markings to tell you what you've got, is to measure the stroke. Simply rotate the crankshaft around until the #1 cylinder is at TDC (top dead center) as indicated at the timing mark. Remove the spark plug and insert a wooden dowel into the cylinder until you hit the top of the piston and make a mark on the dowel. (Use the valve cover lip as a constant reference source.) Then remove the spark plug from the #4 cylinder (when #1 is TDC, #4 is BDC) and make another mark on the dowel. Then measure the difference....."
 
#7 ·
....Here is what is Interesting also because I initially cannot find "a 352 or the backwards "501 cast into block near the front unless I just missed em ? ....: "FYI - A majority of FE blocks have either a '352' or a backwards '501' cast into the front of the block. With the exception of a few hi-performance 428 blocks, most all other FE blocks are identical externally. That is:

CID STROKE
352 3.50"
360
390 3.78"
406
427
410 3.98"
428
........Not Gonna post the other #'s since it will just be a wild goose chase.....I'll try to check the stroke when I have time ....and post the answer if and when I discover the truth here. Thanks for the info all!
 
#8 · (Edited)
Now the plot thickens,....On the front step of the coach has a plaque that reads C4PD- 6001-HW But lookie here below:

Engine Catalog

Mfg: FORD INDUSTRIAL Year: 1964-69 Cyl: 8 Engine: 330CID (5.4L) GAS Bore: 3.875"
Model: C4PA, C4PD, C5PD; C4PA, C4PD, C5PD Engs

Elgin Industries : Online Catalog



:nono:

Also, ...It seems to be saying here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine ...the external counter weight was for the 428 Super Cobra Jet and not necessarily the 428 Cobra jet ?
 
#10 ·
Very likely this is an FT rather than an FE, look a lot alike but internaland some external part dimensions, materials, and a lot of details are different. One indicator that is pretty reliable is to find a plug low down on the right side of the block about in the middle which is for an accessory oil drain.

If this is a 330 thay came two ways; in Heavy Duty they are a true FT and use the forged FT crank with the 1-3/4 snout. The other is the Medium Duty, they are more FE and use the FE size 1-3/8ths crankshaft snout.

Casting numbers on these engines are enough to drive a sober man to drink.

Bogie
 
#11 ·
......Bogie Yes,Thanks!.. I do see some type of drain **** but on both sides of the "middle" block

...I will check the stroke at some point and report what finally gives here but 330 seems to be the one but 428 is on the valve cover i.d. tag/sticker Also, with the C7ME-A on the front of the block with C4TE-6059 or 8059 on the side...
 
#14 ·
Ok....I found this brochure ...which reads FORD 330 1965 Streamline Travel Home Price List


This would seem to be a closed case but even still, it looks like the engine may have been been gone through at some point and possibly changed?... Again,info /tags on coach steps point to 330 engine but valve cover says 429 and
C7ME-A on front of block but C4TE on side ,....

Only one way to know for sure!....well see.
 
#15 ·
...."Am I supposed to look for a counter balance on the front of the crank ?....I only see and feel a large flat smooth pulleys on the back side and very large end shaft before that coming through the block.

My newbie theory on this is this .Maybe they only used those counters for highest Super revving engines? As pointed out by BUZZ about the motor home possibly having the "428" big bore/short stroke 427" or small bore/long stroke 428" ..........and only the super drag fast FORD cars that these blocks went in ?

"The 428 cu in (7.0 L) engine used a cast nodular iron crankshaft and was externally balanced". Ford FE engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

....No see externally balanced shaft on my engine so.........:embarrass

I'm onna still check the stroke to make sure since all the info I get says You can't tell otherwise.......:spank:

Thanks for all the replies!....I'll post my findings finally.
 
#19 ·
All 428s are externally balanced so they will have a damper with an offset weight. C7ME and C4TE indicate a 330 FT casting but all this really means is the engine can have a bore of 3.875 to 4.05 inches. Stroke is independant of that with 3.5 inch making 330 on a 3.875 bore, 359 & 361 on a 4.05 bore. 4.05 bore also makes a 389 on 4.05 bore and 3.786 makes a 391 on the 4.05bore.

I've never tried it but folks claim a 3.875 can be bored to 4.05, there are claims that the 4.05 bore can go to 4.13. The 4.05 bore with a 428 3.95 inch crank makes a 410 with a 4.13 bore a 428. Like I said I have never tried to stretch a 330 to these larger bores but it is claimed to be possible. The C7ME and C4TE blocks have a reputation for being robust, but I wouldn't get crazy with the boreing bar without a sonic check of wall thickness.

You're going to ave to open this critter up to see what the bore and stroke is what I've stated here is about as far as those casting numbers will take you.

If there are plugged drains on both sides of the block these probably are cooling jacket drains. You have the problem of Ford getting toward the end of FE production so they were making all sorts of combinations from the warehouse supply of parts. Industrial engines are probably the worst for this.

Bogie
 
#16 ·
...So before I check the stroke, can anyone tell me how to read the chart below:

see the C7ME-A that is what my block says on the side ( I first said front )

Ford FE Engine Block Casting Numbers - FORDification.com



This list seems to imply the 330 and 427 being same ?




B9AE-B '59-'60 352 c.i.d.
'59 332 c.i.d.
C1AE-C '61-'62 390 c.i.d.
C1AE-G '61-'62 352 & 390 c.i.d.
C1AE-V '61 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters,
Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BC '62 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters,
Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BD '62-'63 406 c.i.d. Cross Bolted Mains, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BE '62 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters,
Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BR '62 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters,
Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BS '62 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters,
Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-J '62 406 c.i.d. Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-K '?? 406 c.i.d.
C2AE-V '?? 406 c.i.d.
C2SE '62 390 c.i.d.
C3AE '?? 360 c.i.d.
C3AE-A '63 352 c.i.d.
C3AE-AB '63 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
C3AE-AY '65 390 c.i.d.
C3AE-D '63 406 c.i.d. Has Bosses But No Cross Bolts
C3AE-F '63 352 c.i.d.
C3AE-G '64 352 c.i.d.
C3AE-KY '63 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C3AE-M '63 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
C3AE-V '63 406 c.i.d. Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C3AE-Z '65 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
C3ME-B '63 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C3SE-A '63 390 c.i.d.
C4AE '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
'64 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
C4AE-A '64 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
'64-'78 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck, Has Bosses For Cross Bolted Mains; Partially Cast From 427 Molds, Reinforcement Webs
'64 352 c.i.d.
'64-'78 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Has Bosses For Cross Bolted Mains Partially Cast From 427 Molds, Reinforcement Webs
C4AE-D '64 390 c.i.d.
C4AE-F '64 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C4ME-F '64 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance
C4TE-A '?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
C4TE-B '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
C4TE-C '64-'77 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck
C4TE-D '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
C4TE-F '64-'77 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck
C4TE-G '?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
C5AE-A '65 390 c.i.d.
'?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck
'65 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
C5AE-B '65 390 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C5AE-C '65 352 c.i.d.
C5AE-D '65 427 c.i.d. Side Oiler
C5AE-E '65 427 c.i.d. Top Oiler
C5AE-H '65-'66 427 c.i.d. To 12-9-65, Side Oiler
C5JE-D '66 427 c.i.d. Irrigation
C6AE-A '66-'67 428 c.i.d. CobraJet
C6AE-B '65-'66 427 c.i.d. To 12-9-65, Side Oiler
'66 428 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet, Solid Lifters
C6AE-C '65-'66 427 c.i.d. Side Oiler
C6AE-D '66-'67 427 c.i.d. Side Oiler
C6AE-F '66 428 c.i.d. Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet, Solid Lifters
C6JE-B '66 427 c.i.d. Marine
C6ME '66-'70 428 c.i.d. Cobra Jet
'?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
'?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium & Heavy Duty Truck
'68-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d.
'66-'67 410 c.i.d.
C6ME-A '66-'67 410 c.i.d.
'?? 390 c.i.d.
'68 - '76 360 c.i.d.
'?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
'66-'67 352 c.i.d.
'?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium & Heavy Duty Truck
'66-'70 428 c.i.d. 428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet, May Or May Not Be Drilled For Hydraulic Lifters… Look For Oil Galleries
C6TE-C '66 352 c.i.d.
C6TE-L '66 352 c.i.d.
C7AE '67 352 c.i.d.
C7AE-A '67 427 c.i.d. Side Oiler
'68 427 c.i.d. Marine
C7AE-J '68 427 c.i.d. Irrigation
C7JE-A '67 427 c.i.d. Marine
C7JE-E '67 427 c.i.d. Industrial Engine
C7ME '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
'?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck
C7ME-A '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck
'67-'70 428 c.i.d. 428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet
C8AE-A '68-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d.
'68 427 c.i.d. Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oiler
C8AE-B '68 427 c.i.d. Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oiler
C8AE-C '68-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d.
C7ME-C '67 428 c.i.d. 428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet
C8AE-E '68-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d.
C8AE-H '68 427 c.i.d. Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oilier
C8ME '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
'?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck
'68-'70 428 c.i.d. Cobra Jet
D1TE-AA '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D2TE-C '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D3TE '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
'73-'76 360 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
'?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
'73-'76 390 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-AE '73-'76 390 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-HA '73-'76 390 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-1 '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
'?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
'73-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d. Some Have "SPECIAL" Cast Below Number
D3TE-AC '73-'76 360-390 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-BA '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-BC '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-EA '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-EB '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-EC '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-HA '73-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D4TE '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium & Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
'?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-1 '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium & Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
'?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-AC '74-'76 360 & 390 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-BC '?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
'?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-CC '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d. Reinforcement Webs
D7TE '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D7TE-AC '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D7TE-BA '?? 360 & 390 c.i.d. Service Block
D7TE-DC '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D7TE-GA '?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck
EDC '58 332 & 352 c.i.d. Solid lifters, two core plugs at front of block, four in rear, and three on each side.
'58-'59 361 c.i.d.
EDC-B '60 352 c.i.d. High Performance
EDC-C '60 352 c.i.d. High Performance
575063 '58 332 c.i.d. Hydraulic Lifters
5751091 '58-'59 332 c.i.d.
5750603 '58 352 c.i.d. Hydraulic Lifters
5751091 '58-'59 352 c.i.d.
5AE-D '65 427 c.i.d. Side Oiler
6AE-C '65-'66 427 c.i.d. Side Oiler
 
#17 ·
"...Re: C7ME-A engine block numbers, not a 428 ???
Postby FreakysFords » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:12 pm

Something else to note.

C7ME-A engine block numbers, not a 428 ??? - The FORDification.com Forums

SOME, again SOME FEs with the 428 mark with 405 bore had the very thick walled sleeves. These (provided corrosion hasn't killed them) can usually be bored to stock for a fresh 428 build. Some say this is true, some say it isn't. I say my own (and a couple built for others) engines over the years say it is true, just not very common.

I have 2 428s and have had many more. Only one came as a 428 from the factory. I used to pop a freeze plug and measure between the sleeves back in the day and if it was the thick sleeves, I'd bore away. Thing is, these days many, many are corroded, so if it you find one that does have the thick sleeves, you need to pay to have it checked and only bore if it checks good (to full stock that is).

This make sense I hope? lol it's easier to show than tell.
Darlin 69 Ranger 390 4v, PS, DS II, disc front, 3G alternator, 67 mirror.
 
#27 ·
Hi, ....it says on title, "first year made" 65 but for the year 67

Streamline....only 80 or so were ever made and each one unique ...this one has two doors on side and was used for a dressing room in hollywood by Anne Baxter and Walter pigeon as a matter of fact, back in the mid to late sixties...

I picked it up from some kids who obtained it from the last owners( passed away) family. He owned it for 20 years....last registered and insured 2011 on tags..
It runs good when the carb is not sticking...causing some ( light grey ) smoking . I am gonna see about replacing the motor-craft 4300 (with the bad rep) with an earlier auto-lite 4100

Carb # C8AFAS points to 428, Engine sticker says type 428 and block#C7MEA and C4TE-6059 point to 330 or 428 ? ....will find out soon enough.

It is in really good shape, but they had it sputtering off the fuel tank to show me that it runs and smoked......I had them shut it down and I bypassed the tank....drove it home 3 miles....cleaned out carb and ran good for about 1hr total and about 5 gallons of fuel......then sputtered and stalled for good this time. I suspect the accelerator pump do to only one stream of fuel going in carb on on side of the primaries but something is stuck because it is now starving for fuel.

Thanks for the interest, I am sure hopeful in getting it roadworthy again and making some memories with family ......Jaysen
 
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