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Old 05-12-2013, 02:10 PM
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429 428 help

Hello iam new to the hot rod forms and i am bulding a 1967 shelby gt500 and want to put a stick shift in but the junkyard car has no engine and i have found a 429 and a 428 i would love to get in the 800 to 1300 horse power out of the engine with out a suoercharger or turbo whats your advise
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jfreebird85 View Post
whats your advise
My best advice is to lay down the Popular Hot Rodding, Car Craft, Hot Rod and Rod & Custom magazines and find the nearest dragstrip to attend. Hang around with some fellows who can tell you the truth about how to build a performance motor.

Read some books by famous authors like John lingenfelter, David Vizard, Smokey Yunick and others who were tops in their field.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:55 PM
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Thanks man
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:08 PM
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800 to 1,300 HP on a NA motor is outrageous, and will not be street friendly, not to mention cost which could easily exceed $15k. Boost tends to calm things down.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:13 PM
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Ok well iam not to concerned about the street friendly part but i do want a na engine what would you sugest for the 800+ hp
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:49 PM
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Here's what it takes to make 800 HP and 740 ft-lbs from a naturally aspirated Ford. You can own one for a mere $17,400.

Jon Kaase Racing Engines - 520 to 598 C.I. Kaase P-51 Engine
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:20 PM
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Thank joe thats very helpful the price is upthere but i expected that but i dont want to buy a engine i want to build one from the ground up to have pride in it
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:16 PM
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how many 400 hp engines have you build so far?I'm not saying you can't do it,I'm saying you need a lot of experience to build that kind of N.A. hp. 800 hp is either from a big engine that revs quite high,or a medium size engine that revs a lot higher.
Probably cost you more to build it yourself
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:44 AM
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429 stick is better
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE=Jfreebird85;1675067]Hello iam new to the hot rod forms and i am bulding a 1967 shelby gt500 and want to put a stick shift in but the junkyard car has no engine and i have found a 429 and a 428 i would love to get in the 800 to 1300 horse power out of the engine with out a suoercharger or turbo whats your advise[/QUOTE]

Wow this is gonna be a lot of table clearing.

First off an engine at this kind of power level is naturally aspirated is strictly a professional build with nothing but the best of expensive hard to obtain parts. Getting a data point this king of naturally aspirated power is the stuff of NASCAR Cup engines.

Next while the FE 428 was a nice engine in its day it has been functionally obsolete since 1969. It has many foibles that need to be fixed from hugely inefficient combustion chambers to very narrow rod bearings that lose their oil wedge as the power gets up over 500 and the RPMs above 6000. This is fixable with a custom crank and rods. Ford also fixed this problem with the 427 FE with the Lemans and later NASCAR crank and rods. The 427 also has cross-bolt main caps, and a completely revised oiling system as well as many other changes to the block not shared with the 428.

The 429 will also take a huge amount of block prep and if not a 4 bolt block will need that modification as well as a girdle. You'll have to go to the aftermarket for heads. The crank, rods and pistons will need to be the best money can buy. Any production part for either engine is nowhere up to the task of this much power. The best place to start on this path is with the 429 shotgun hemi if you can find and afford one. These are race ready, built to take on the Chrysler 426 hemi, just as the energy crisis, emissions standard and super expensive insurance hit which ended Fords support to racing and this engine died. There's some around just bring lots of money.

A more reasonable expectation for either of these engines is about 450-500 horses and that won't be cheap but it won't be astronomical either.

There is no way to get either of these engines over 750-800 horse without some sort of boost whether that be nitrous of some form of supercharge. The FE was never a popular AA fuel drag engine, even the overhead cam version failed at this, not that it can't develop the power, but it can't keep the bottom end together and produce that power even with the trick crank and rods.

Speaking of bottom ends, for either engine at this power level the oiling system must be dry sumped. Another expensive proposition!

Sorry for the cold water, but building engines at this power level is an exacting science that is unbelievably expensive.

I’ll Recommend some reading:
The Design And Tuning Of Competition Engines/Sixth Edition
• by
• Philip H. Smith,
• David N. Wenner (Editor)
How to Build Horsepower: Volume 1 [Paperback]

How to Build Horsepower: Volume 2 [Paperback]

How to Build Horsepower: Volume 3 [Paperback]

David Vizard's How to Build Horsepower (SA Design) [Paperback]
This last book is kind of a compendium of the first 3 books along with updated information, you really need the first 3 to get at the nuts and bolts the 4th book rather glosses over.
There’s lots of good reading out there but my recommendation is to build a library of David Vizard, he leans a lot toward Chevrolet but his insights cover any and all engines.


Bogie
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by oldbogie View Post
QUOTE=The 429 will also take a huge amount of block prep and if not a 4 bolt block will need that modification as well as a girdle. You'll have to go to the aftermarket for heads. The crank, rods and pistons will need to be the best money can buy. Any production part for either engine is nowhere up to the task of this much power.
Note that the Jon Kaase 800 HP engine I posted the link to above is based on the 429/460 architecture, but obviously with all aftermarket parts. Displacements are available from 520 to 580 cu in. Block, heads, crank, pistons, rods, intake, etc are all aftermarket. Frankly, at under $18K that motor is pretty reasonably priced. I would have expected it to be higher.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:16 AM
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It's all just his fantasy world!
Junkyard 67 shelby gt 500.
Ya right!!
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