433 Bbc Vs 425 Sbc - Page 5 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:14 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 466
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There is an aftermarket out there that will support 800+ cubic inches... All it takes is a LOT of money. 99% of the posters on this forum do not have that kind of pocket change, nor the money it takes to build the car to handle that power. If they want 600hp a lot of them go with a 496 with a reworked th400 or 4L80e as it is a cheap effective combo that can still manage to get people in the 10's.


Oh, and for some weird reason F1 racers can spin their engines REALLY high and yet they have ran relatively short rod ratios... The limiting factor for them is how fast the fuel can burn. Also, some industrial diesels loaf along at less than 500 rpm but have really long rod/stroke ratios...

    Advertisement
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:38 PM
Dirty Biker's Avatar
Bold As Love
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In my van, down by the river.
Age: 38
Posts: 378
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1988 Honda Formula 1 1.5L with turbo

Bore 3.11
stroke 2
rod length 3.60
rod ratio 1.8:1

torque peak @10,000 rpms 344 ft/lb
peak horsepower @13,600 rpm 700 horses.

Can you believe all from a little 1500cc motor?!? LOL

That may not seem like a very high rod ratio, but remember it only has a 2 inch stroke too. Some people think 1.8:1 is perfect for all around compromise.
Quick reply to this message
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:55 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Whatever "gain" that may or may not be seen w/a RR different from what a "normal" 496 would have is negated by the excessive valve train instability or the costs associated w/overcoming them when using a TD block. You just seem bound to ignore folks who know their ****- both here, and guys like Pat Musi who has built more 500+ engines than anyone here, and has the records to back up HIS knowledge- should you continue to ignore those of us here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottlebaby
Last year Muscle Car magazine had an article on the F.A.S.T. racing class of Stock appearing cars. In this article was a Corvette with a 511 CID based on a 454 BBC. It featured a 4.375 inch bore and a 4.25 stroke( the bore was a full 1/8 overbore and the stroke is common) I have also seen this in Car Craft with a 4.31 bore(+.060) and a 4.375 inch stroke.

My question is which is easier to build from the stand point of availabilty of usable blocks & commonly produced cranks( production or aftermarket)?
If this question is still valid, the answers have been given, although in several posts.

To sum it up: The 4.375" crank is a "maybe- maybe not" deal, AFA clearancing it w/o hitting water. Or oil. Or both. You can do a half-fill of Hardblok, but that's getting out there, reliability-wise (possible cooling issues), for little gain over a 4.25" crank that WILL fit w/o issue.

As long as you build the engine to well known and understood practices, this engine will be capable of delivering you to nirvana w/ease- spray and all.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have any BBC experience at this early point. But if you were to take a ride in a 468 BBC done right- you'd **** yourself!

A passenger car 4-bolt block w/a rotator from Scat and a good set of heads from *fill in the blank* and a solid roller valvetrain is the basis for an engine that will give you all that you've asked for. Plus.

The cam is what will determine whether or not you need any astronomical RPM to reach peak power. To over cam a 500 CID engine will take some doing- this engine will swallow a cam within the realm of being streetable (i.e. enough vacuum to not be a pig down low and not need a 5K rpm stall converter w/4.88's out back) w/o so much as a hiccough.

And while I'm here, you do realize that you've got to put this power to the pavement- no mean feat when you get up there where this type engine will put you, power-wise. The entire suspension and drivetrain has to be up to the task- very little room for cheap or OEM here except maybe the rearend housing, if you can get a good 9" or Dana 60 w/lotsa splines and aftermarket diff, etc., HD driveshaft and U-joints, built trans and TC, the works. Probably be best to just plan on back-halving it from the get-go. That way, you'll have the adjustability needed and the potential for enough traction to make this worth the effort.

I don't know how many cars have been spanked by cars w/half the HP- but were able to apply ALL of it to the pavement, while the big numbers guy went up in smoke. Happens all the time.

Don't forget the subframe connectors if applicable, fuel cell and system including a dedicated N2O system plumbed separately from the gasoline feed to the carb, cage, helmet and harness unless you never plan on taking it to the track- or have a death wish.

There's more- but you get the idea.
Quick reply to this message
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:57 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 466
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, I looked into it because I remember seeing such short rods in an old F1 engine and the ratio is rather long. Apparently its long because they can't get it any shorter, the engines components only allow for a certain space and with a short stroke ~2" a short rod (~4") is still along rod/stroke ratio. I also found out that many endurance engines do run a short ratio, and many run a long ratio- primarily dictated by the deck height and the stroke- meaning the rod is an after thought (long enough to connect the wrist pin to the crankshaft).

While I don't think anyone can disagree about rod ratio having an effect (just look at the piston travel in relation to the crankshaft travel) the weight it carries is VERY small (smaller than the change felt from 1 of ignition timing).
Quick reply to this message
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2010, 04:08 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 8,809
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 19
Thanked 352 Times in 322 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BottleBaby
Is there an aftermarket block like the Bow Tie that will go to 4.31 or 4.375 and accept a 4.375/ 4.25 inch stroke?
Any stock 4.25" bore block will handle overbore to 4.350" and the 4.250" stroke, you don't need an aftermarket block just to do this. Doesn't hurt to use one if you want at that point though, but it isn't mandatory.

If you want the 4.375" bore it will need the aftermarket block.

Any of these engines you are considering building will completely destroy any factory type 4-speed transmission, you will need a Liberty, Jerico, or something like a built Tremec 5-speed or a built T-56. Just throwing this in there because you mentioned 4-speed in your earlier post and in other threads and were referring to stock 4-speeds like Muncie and Borg-Warner...they don't have a snowball's chance in the hot place of surviving.
Quick reply to this message
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:43 AM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,875
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 59 Posts
Alright enough!

If you can't play nice with the other kids in the sand box we will take away the sand box.

In general when discussing things on internet forums you should be talking to the OP not every one else who has an opinion...thats called arguing or trolling depending on the context...some borderline trolling going on in here.

Here's the guidelines, read em.

Hotrodders Bulletin Board Guidelines
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BBC Fan Clutch on a SBC ? early68 Engine 1 08-16-2010 08:41 AM
sbc to bbc therealbobinator Hotrodding Basics 4 01-15-2009 07:36 AM
SBC to BBC powerline808 Engine 1 03-25-2006 05:49 AM
Do SBC and BBC mount in the same position? 70bird Engine 3 11-06-2004 07:16 PM
is a 429 an SBC or a BBC? solowookie Engine 16 10-23-2002 05:01 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.