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Old 08-25-2010, 03:47 PM
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433 Bbc Vs 425 Sbc

I am looking for your opinions based on your experiences here.

I am sloooooowly building a war chest to fund a Pro-Street car or truck.

Useage will be Cruises of 5-60 miles at a time, racing at local tracks such as Summit Motorsports & Dragway 42, show at local cruise ins & shows.

Judging by articles & books it sounds like the SBC has closed the performance gap with its larger kin the BBC.

Which would you build to have 600-700 HP at the flywheel w/o using N2O?

{Fuel will be 66% Pump E-85( 96-105 octane) blended 33%with Rockett Brand E-85( octane 112).}

I) A 436 cid SBC based on after market forged components( Motown Block 4.165 bore,6 inch rods,4.0 crank, solid roller cam & lifters) expected power band (2800-7000 rpm) 11.25-12.5:1 CR

II) A 433 cid BBC based on a production block & forged aftermarket components ( +.030 bore 454 block, 6.35 inch BBC rods, 3.76 inch crank, solid roller cam & lifters) 11.25-12.5:1 CR

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Old 08-25-2010, 04:14 PM
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Why such a small stroke for the BBC? You can easily get nearly 500 cid w/a 4.25" crank. This allows the entire combo to be milder for the same potential output.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:54 PM
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I agree, why hamstring the BBC with such a small stroke, go stock 454(4") at least, it will still rev comfortably into the 7500 rpm area if you put big enough heads on it, and more than meet your power goals. If you are buying forged crank, going to 4.25" stroke is a no-brainer.

The SBC w/23 heads will need the best of everything thrown at it to reach 700 hp naturally aspirated unless you go to 18 heads, still going to have to turn it to 8000 rpm.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:57 PM
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BBC will be alot cheaper than the SBC in this case lol. I like the 3.76 stroke 427 motors, I am a big fan. Bigger ain't always better in my opinion. I think the big block would last longer too.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:17 PM
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It is always easier to make big power with a bigger engine. The big block use much better heads and are capable of much longer stroke cranks than small blocks.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:58 PM
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This is one case where the BBC would actually be cheaper than the SBC. I have built two SBC's that make 800+ HP naturally Aspirated. One was an 18 degree 421ci that cost around 20,000 and made 817 HP at 7200 RPM and the other was a SB2.2 358ci that cost around 40,000 and made 850 HP at 9,000 RPM.

But I have also built a 632 that made 1200 HP for 20,000 dollars.

When you get into anything over 500 hp you have to really stress a small block and buy exotic blocks and heads to make it live. But at 600 to 700 Hp a big block is just hitting its stride. It is easy to make 700hp with a stock tall deck block and decent heads on a bbc.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:39 PM
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I second what double_v23 said. You said you wanted a 427 right? A 427 tall deck has a steel crank like a 366, will handle lots and lots of power and save you some bucks. 700 horses would be very easy to get with the high compression that you can run on alky, you wouldn't even need a wild cam. With a solid roller cam and good heads who knows? Maybe 900 horses!! Theres a 427 tall deck and crank on craigslist already been block prep for 400 bones!! I wish I had a race car... BTW you might already know this but theres going to be forty eleven people trying to tell you to build a stroker motor. Because 900 hp isn't enough... Let me tell ya, that extra little bit of hp you might get from a stroker motor costs a heck of alot of money and you might actually end up getting less power because you cant turn the revs anymore. People hate me.
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:42 PM
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Which is the better option for a BBC, a 427 Tall Deck Block or a 502 block?

I am thinking 4.5 inch bore for the 502 but with a 3.76 inch crank for 478 CID or 4.28 bore for the 427 block for 433 CID?

I read in an old copy of Super Chevy about a 3.875 inch stroke crank for BBCs is this still available?

If it is I could build a 452 CID(4.31 bore with a 3.875 inch stroke) BBC based on the 427 Tall Deck block.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BottleBaby
Which is the better option for a BBC, a 427 Tall Deck Block or a 502 block?

I am thinking 4.5 inch bore for the 502 but with a 3.76 inch crank for 478 CID or 4.28 bore for the 427 block for 433 CID?

I read in an old copy of Super Chevy about a 3.875 inch stroke crank for BBCs is this still available?

If it is I could build a 452 CID(4.31 bore with a 3.875 inch stroke) BBC based on the 427 Tall Deck block.
A 502 (nominal 4.5" bore x 4" stroke) w/a 4-1/4" crank gets you an easy 540 cid. Or 40 more cubes than the same stroke crank in a 427/454 bore (nom. 4.250") block. No contest, IMO. Cubes rule- to build a "small" BBC is shortsighted- again- IMO.

FWIW, to get 900 NA HP out of a 427 is not easy. Or cheap.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:55 PM
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Why don't you go the 454 or 496 route? Its like hitting the "easy button" for 700hp.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:42 PM
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I aggree with all about the BBC being a better platform for a high HP engine.

One thing no one has mentioned. When going to cruise-ins, car shows, or whatever, the BBC is the biggest WOW catcher out there in the GM world.

Nothing looks cooler than a BBC with Aluminum heads setting in any engine compartment.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdriv
I aggree with all about the BBC being a better platform for a high HP engine.

One thing no one has mentioned. When going to cruise-ins, car shows, or whatever, the BBC is the biggest WOW catcher out there in the GM world.

Nothing looks cooler than a BBC with Aluminum heads setting in any engine compartment.
I respectfully disagree with that. Forced indction gets the most looks, and a roots blower is still king when it comes to stealing the show. There's also some LS, northstar, and even polished up V6's that draw far more attention than "another BBC". For the wow factor the BBC is VERY overdone and at this point boring.

Sure makes a car go fast though!
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:19 PM
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I am having trouble understanding why you are trying to go with all these different strokes and bore combinations that are uncommon and therefore more costly.

A 427 block is the same as a 454 block. A 4.250 stroke in a .060 over 454 or 427 gets you 496 cubic inches. This is a common upgrade these days, it is like the big brother of the 383 "stroker" (I hate that term....Every engine is a stroker).

Less common and considerably more expensive is this 502 that you are speaking of. An .080 over 454 (or 427) with a 4.250 gets you close to 505 cubic inches. And would still be less expensive and more common than a "502" as defined by the GM 502 crate motor. 4.500 bore and 4.000 stroke (or something like that)

Cubic inches don't care how they are made. They make similar power whether you have a 5.000 stroke and 3.000 bore. or if you have a 3.000 bore and a 5.000 stoke.

The difference comes in when you factor in what type of materials you can afford, what RPM you want to run the engine, and what you will be doing with the engine and vehicle.

For example GMC made a V-12 that was over 700 cubic inches back in the 60's. It made tons of torque but couldn't turn more than 2500 RPM because it would destroy itself. But it was great for heavy duty trucks with 18+ gears.

In short, Get the most cubic inches that you can afford that will run in the RPM you want to run. If you spend money to get some exotic parts combination that is less cubes....it is like showing up to a track meet in ski boots, yeah you can probably go just as fast as the other guys but it is going to take a lot more effort. (ski boots=less cubes and more effort=time and money)
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BottleBaby
Which is the better option for a BBC, a 427 Tall Deck Block or a 502 block?
I am thinking 4.5 inch bore for the 502 but with a 3.76 inch crank for 478 CID or 4.28 bore for the 427 block for 433 CID?
I read in an old copy of Super Chevy about a 3.875 inch stroke crank for BBCs is this still available?
If it is I could build a 452 CID(4.31 bore with a 3.875 inch stroke) BBC based on the 427 Tall Deck block.
I don't understand why you are so insistent about wanting less than 500 cubic inches. What's going on in your brain? Why all the wierd combinations?
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:39 PM
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Yep

Cubic inches don't care how they are made. They make similar power whether you have a 5.000 stroke and 3.000 bore. or if you have a 3.000 bore and a 5.000 stoke.[quote DoubleV23]

I like the way you think. Ain't no point in re-inventing the wheel. Power comes out pretty close one way or the other. Use the common parts for the most cubes. I think that the high price of big block HP heads makes people start looking at big cube smallblocks including me. olnolan
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