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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2009, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Just playin' around on the DynoSim this afternoon and put this together.....
434 Chevy 4.155" x 4.000"
AFR 227 Competition heads, part # 1120, 75cc chambers
http://www.airflowresearch.com/store...?cPath=1_2_114
Flat-top pistons w/5cc valve reliefs, 1.000" compression height (yields 11.00:1 static compression ratio with 4.200" x 0.040" gasket and zero deck).
6.000" rods. Yields 9.000" stack with 2.000" crank radius and 1.000" piston compression height. Squish = 0.040".
Large tube, equal length open headers.
CompCams solid roller cam. Yields 8.392:1 dynamic compression ratio installed straight up (pump gas friendly). Cam timing at 0.050" tappet lift....IVO 24 BTDC, IVC 56 ABDC, EVO 58 BBDC, EVC 26 ATDC. Oval track sprint car grind, but works best of 8 cams I tried in this motor. 106/106/106. Made best torque 2000-7000 of all cams tried. (I'm all about torque).
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=342&sb=0
950 CFM carb on dual-plane, high-rise intake manifold. Dual plane made more hp and torque through 6000. Single plane makes slightly more from 6500 to redline, but gives up a ton 2000 to 6000.

RPM HP TQ
2000 163 428
2500 217 457
3000 275 481
3500 348 523
4000 429 563
4500 512 597
5000 581 610
5500 627 600
6000 658 576
6500 661 534
7000 655 492
7500 634 444
Thanks techinspector1... to take you time to help me...it's really appreciate...

As I can see..I need more stall than 3500....Have you tried a different carb than the 950hp carburetor...like dominator or something else...???

I know it's better to have a dual plane...but If I put nitrous on it..maybe more than 150....they not recomment do used a dual plane....

Have you save your setup on your dyno sims....if yes....can you tried the same cam with dart pro one cnc head plz...and a different carb..like a 1050 dominator..thanks again...MR...

Stephane

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2009, 10:48 PM
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Au contraire monsieur, the 3500 stall should be just right.

I'll see if I can dig up some flow figures for the Dart Pro One CNC heads. If you have them, please post.

I don't see the problem with a dual plane intake and nitrous. Just plumb the squirters into the intake runners. I don't see how the motor would know the difference.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2009, 11:08 PM
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When we use to run 434 in dirt late model we find that 6800 is the best all around RPM. I do still have the cam spec on this setup and I think it will work well with blower.
We did run flowed Brodix raise runner 11X along with HVH intake. The compression is around 13:1 ratio on Alky with 930 cfm carb. The 850 carb. will work great on gas for your setup.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2009, 11:31 PM
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Hi Stephane, I dont know if you remember, but we talked a little back when you had the oval port heads on your motor. I think I was in the middle of building my motor at that time. It is done now, but not running quite what I think it is capable of. It is just a oval port 9.5:1 496, but I am hoping for mid 11's out of it N/A. So far, I have gotten high 7's in the 1/8th.

By the way, good job on the low 10's with your old motor. That is not too bad for a pump gas 468 and a little juice.

Here is a picture.




As for your new engine, I think the 3500 stall should. Because you are going to run pump gas, I would stick to around 10.5:1 compression to be safe. That being the case, you are somewhat limited on the cam size. As for what cam to run, I would contact a guy with a screen name UDHarold from www.chevelles.com. If you introduce your self with the question on that site, I think you will get a good response.

As for the heads, bang for the buck, I would recommend the AFR street CNC 227cc heads. I have had good luck with the AFR's. As for a combo to put you in the ball park of something that may work well, consider the following engine.

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article045/A-P1.htm

408 ci
"old" AFR Comp 227cc heads, which are supposed to perform similarly to the "new" street 227's which are ~$1500 a set.
9.9:1 compression
1150 cfm dominator
super victor intake
262 266 @.050 .638 .639 lift solid roller

620 hp @ 7000 RPM
537 ft lbs @5100 RPM

Being in a 434, something like this may work with a 3500 stall.

Good luck
Adam
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2009, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
My only proble with that whole thing is you set up AFR as the head by which all others are judged and I vehemently disagree. They are cheaper sometimes, not better always
No need to 'vehemently' disagree. I did not only state use of AFR's so why the big deal??? Plenty of 434's out there now, running very good some of them, others not as good. There is little doubt the performance of the AFR head, it has proved itself time and time again. Couple years back put a set on a 406 in a 1984 Caprice that went 10.0x, on motor, w/10" slick and absolutely no suspension mods. Not a 434, but AFR headed... with 4 doors. Tell you what, give me examples of AFR head engines that do not do well. RHS has some very good heads, as does Brodix, and Canfield, and All Pro, and, Pro-Filer Performance has some new sbc heads designed by Darrin Morgan. Maybe you have a beef with AFR, I do not, nor do I know anybody who has ANY problems with their heads. I will use just about any head out there sans the cheap offshore junk. I have spent lots more money on comparable Darts - nearly $3k for 227 CNC'd w/2.10 int 1.625 springs girdle etc been running for several years. No doubt in my mind a comparable AFR on same engine would do better, no doubt at all. I can give example after example of engines with AFR head that outperformed the replaced heads, but it probably wouldn't make a difference to some who have a chip about a product. As far as flow numbers, they are fine to look at for some comparison, but do not tell the tale, and then you must also look at what depression and bore size to achieve the numbers as well as pipe no pipe etc etc etc. It is very important for the head to flow well and I do not mean to diminish the flow characteristics of any heads - just making the point about 'flow numbers'. I don't even want to chime back in on this one, but will say this - buy whatever heads suit your fancy, if they aren't up to your expectations, sell them and try some AFR's. ADIOS!
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 06:45 AM
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LOL, this is just about to get even more interesting.....
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 09:17 AM
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edited, wrong respnose.

Last edited by Jsup; 06-21-2009 at 12:48 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsup
Hey TechInspector, that's nice, but I've heard this all before - it's purely anecdotal
What's anecdotal, the dyno sim? It's just a simulation- and I do not recall TI advocating either head, one way or the other. He's hopefully gonna run a simulation using the Dart heads- is that what your worried about?

Quote:
Look at the Engine Master results this year
Now, there's some results that are about as unrelated to any real-world scenario as you can get! These EM events are interesting to see what builders come up with, sure. But come on- no one- not even them- would build an engine like those for anything EXCEPT the EM event! There's not a square centimeter of those engine's ports that haven't gotten attention.

The EM rules are what makes those engines so far from being "real-world", and introduce limitations that no builder would ever place on himself, otherwise.


Quote:
Just once, I'd like someone to cite me from a scientific journal evidence that supports your position
Again I do not think TI HAS a position in re one head over the other in this instance. I do not presume to speak for him (BTW, aren't you glad you came back, TI? ), I'm going by what I reread in this thread.

Quote:
Are they (AFR heads, I'm guessing-c327) the right solution for every problem? Absolutely not.
Who in this thread has said they are? You gotta BIG chip on your shoulder. I do not know what AFR ever did to you, but it musta been a real ***-kicking!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 12:38 PM
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Guys, Sorry, I was at the beach and reading from my Black Berry. Clearly reading off the screen and tyring to put it all together didn't translate. Techinspector and Deeze, sorry I got it wrong. Lesson learned, don't try to get into detial on a BBerry.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:46 PM
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Nothing to add here, dupe.

Last edited by Jsup; 06-21-2009 at 12:53 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
, the 3500 stall should be just right.

I'll see if I can dig up some flow figures for the Dart Pro One CNC heads. If you have them, please post.

I don't see the problem with a dual plane intake and nitrous. Just plumb the squirters into the intake runners. I don't see how the motor would know the difference.

There is the result I was finding on Internet...there is a site that flow allot of sbc and bbc head : there is the link : http://racingfeed.com/downloads/chevy_flow_data.pdf

Dart Pro One CNC Ported 227cc

Lift Intake 2.08 / Exhaust 1.600
.200 158 117
.300 209 149
.400 257 182
.500 293 211
.600 302 220
.700 309 220
.800 314 232

And If you can do the same test with the 230cc pro one


I'm curious of one thing..when you said ''Au contraire monsieur''....are you speak in french....that's a french sentence....and I Speak French...

Thanks again..Stephane
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratoflic
are you speak in french....that's a french sentence....and I Speak French...
Me too!

Let's see. Chablis, Champagne, cabernet sauvignon... lol.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Me too!

Let's see. Chablis, Champagne, cabernet sauvignon... lol.
ahahahahah you are really funny....!!!! It's more than one word....anyway...forget it...
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 06:25 PM
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"I'm curious of one thing..when you said ''Au contraire monsieur''....are you speak in french....that's a french sentence....and I Speak French..."


Being from Quebec, I sort of expected you to speak French and thought I would throw a little of it in to make you feel more at home....
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2009, 06:41 PM
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Changed heads to Dart Pro One 227 Ported, all else the same...
RPM HP TQ
2000 164 432
2500 220 461
3000 279 488
3500 353 530
4000 433 569
4500 508 593
5000 572 601
5500 615 587
6000 637 558
6500 638 515
7000 621 466
7500 585 409

Bringing AFR heads here for comparison...

RPM HP TQ
2000 163 428
2500 217 457
3000 275 481
3500 348 523
4000 429 563
4500 512 597
5000 581 610
5500 627 600
6000 658 576
6500 661 534
7000 655 492
7500 634 444

Going to dinner now, will Sim the Dart 230's later.
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