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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2008, 05:01 PM
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Here's a couple pictures.

Green 77 w/ 383, 727 weighed 3550. Top rear of fender has 3 ovals and 2 bowties stenciled on it. Runs high 8s 1/8 in street trim. 90* street tires. True daily driver shop truck.

Primer 70, HAD a 440 727 with long cross rams and ran 8.4 1/8 poor traction. 90*
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2008, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel
What do you have that weighs 5300 pounds?
1987 D150 with 318
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Old 08-10-2008, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnix
1987 D150 with 318
ok
that's a 1,000+ pounds over spec for a 2 wd long bed.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnix
1987 D150 with 318
Yeah, something is definitely odd, I would try a different set of scales. My big block club cab long box 3/4 ton with 1 ton suspension, overloads and all AND a big canopy weighed what your 1/2 ton does...?!?!?!
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:52 AM
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I will try to get to the recycle center sometime this week and weigh it again.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:14 PM
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Update: I got it weighed at the recycle center and it was 4000 lbs exactly (1994) was last time I weighed it. Good news I guess. I figure 500hp would please me. Could a shop build a 440 to my specs for around $3000
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:47 AM
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you've got "champagne taste's" on a beer budget!!!!
(turnkey/complete 500HP 440 is about $10,000)
random pick EX:
http://proformanceunlimited.com/specs/440_475_al.html

(I agree with ScoT's post above!)
totally forget about HP numbers!!!!

focus on building the motor to the maximum amount of TQ ft/lbs possible starting at the lowest possible rpms possible,,,, aka a "RV" or "4x4" motor build which is relatively inexpensive....
it's the amount of TQ force available acting against the weight of the truck that pushes you back in the seat while accelerating for a really fun ride on the street!

because the truck is sooooo heavy, you need deep rear gears to multiple the available motor TQ force applied to the tires
illustration ex:
500ft/lbs x 2.80 gears=1400ft-lbs twisting the tires/4000lbs of weight=.35 lb of force per lb of wt
500ft/lbs x 4.11 gears=2055ft-lbs/4000 lbs=.51 lbs of force per lb of weight....that's 32%! more force per pound"
do note how less weight does help so much
2055ft-lbs/3500lbs=.58 versus .51 =11% more force per lb

I don't follow mopar parts pricing much at all but they are not "inexpensive" to build compared to many....
I wouldn't be surprised to see a $5000+ total for a completed 440 RV cam motor drive train swap
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
you've got "champagne taste's" on a beer budget!!!!
(turnkey/complete 500HP 440 is about $10,000)
random pick EX:
http://proformanceunlimited.com/specs/440_475_al.html

(I agree with ScoT's post above!)
totally forget about HP numbers!!!!

focus on building the motor to the maximum amount of TQ ft/lbs possible starting at the lowest possible rpms possible,,,, aka a "RV" or "4x4" motor build which is relatively inexpensive....
it's the amount of TQ force available acting against the weight of the truck that pushes you back in the seat while accelerating for a really fun ride on the street!

because the truck is sooooo heavy, you need deep rear gears to multiple the available motor TQ force applied to the tires
illustration ex:
500ft/lbs x 2.80 gears=1400ft-lbs twisting the tires/4000lbs of weight=.35 lb of force per lb of wt
500ft/lbs x 4.11 gears=2055ft-lbs/4000 lbs=.51 lbs of force per lb of weight....that's 32%! more force per pound"
do note how less weight does help so much
2055ft-lbs/3500lbs=.58 versus .51 =11% more force per lb

I don't follow mopar parts pricing much at all but they are not "inexpensive" to build compared to many....
I wouldn't be surprised to see a $5000+ total for a completed 440 RV cam motor drive train swap
I don't think a 500hp 440 is anywhere near $10,000- if built by the owner. 500hp is a MILD 440. Maybe a crate engine, or paying a shop- but even then you can get more than 500hp for $10,000.

I don't think steep gears and an RV cam are the way to go either. Why rev an engine built not to rev? Doesn't make sense to me.

I would go a mild 440 rebuild with a hydraulic cam. Low/no maintenance, plenty of power and streetability. Toss some 3.55 to 4.10 gears in the back with a fairly tall tire, and throw some nitrous at it if you want some impressive times at the track.
Cheap, easy, and it will last.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnix
Update: I got it weighed at the recycle center and it was 4000 lbs exactly (1994) was last time I weighed it. Good news I guess. I figure 500hp would please me. Could a shop build a 440 to my specs for around $3000
4000 pounds seems alot more like it to me!
A shop will charge as much as they think they can charge, you will have to shop around and be specific in what you want and what you are willing to pay. Get a quote in writing, because shops are notorious for inflating prices for "unseen" necessities.
A good shop will know what it needs and what it will use.

Building it yourself would bring the $3000 easily within reach if you have a core already. And 500hp would be not hard to get IMO.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Mopar Guy
4000 pounds seems alot more like it to me!
A shop will charge as much as they think they can charge, you will have to shop around and be specific in what you want and what you are willing to pay. Get a quote in writing, because shops are notorious for inflating prices for "unseen" necessities.
A good shop will know what it needs and what it will use.

Building it yourself would bring the $3000 easily within reach if you have a core already. And 500hp would be not hard to get IMO.
I plan to build it myself but the boring and stuff like that I would need a shop. Thats the cost I was wondering.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2008, 11:06 AM
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Crazy Mopar,
a "RV" cam (ex:204/210) HP rpm's peak is only 4500-4800, not high rpms at all....
a "taller" tire defeats the tq gain of the lower gears ratio.....

Fnix,
stock, rebuilt and mileage guaranteed 440 complete long blocks are anywhere from $2000 to $4000 so $3000 just for the normal rebuild machine work is likely to much....
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:30 PM
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We had good luck with the 292/.509 Purple Shaft (Mopar performance) in the long ram truck and some cars, but there are better cams out there now.

The 383 truck has a Comp XE268H, Perf RPM, 750.

A good cam will have a short 108* LSA (maximum) and duration about 230* @ .050. Be sure and get one ground for the >mopar sized lifters<, not some cheapy cam made with Chevy lobes.

Stock heads 440,
stock rods,
decent pistons not deep in the holes,
727 trans,
good 4 tube headers, 1 3/4" preferred,
15 inch header collector extension, (24 inch total collector length),
(better is 4-2-1 headers)
and a true stall of about 2600-2800,
Performer RPM and 750 AVS Edelbrock,
3.55 gears with 275.60x15 tires,
ladder bars or clamped springs,
200 pounds back by the tailgate, and it still will be a tire toaster.
It should pull well to 6000 but try shifting at 5500.

It won't make 500 hp, but probably 440-450.
I should get 13 mpg at 60 mph, and still put you back in the seat well.

We did a LWB stock head 360 with Performer RPM, 750, that ran 9.0s in the summer time.

OH, if you have an externally balanced cast crank 440 engine..... the crankshaft is 13 pounds lighter than the others and will wind up like a 383.

Last edited by ScoTFrenzel; 08-19-2008 at 08:36 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
Crazy Mopar,
a "RV" cam (ex:204/210) HP rpm's peak is only 4500-4800, not high rpms at all....
a "taller" tire defeats the tq gain of the lower gears ratio.....
Precisely why I said- why have steep gears in a vehicle with an engine that was not BUILT to rev...?

You can toss a 29" tall tire on a 4.10 gear and you'll still pull 3000+ rpm on the highway with 4.10 gears. It's too much for an "RV" cam.

I've built some frisky trucks in the past for work trucks, 440s with decent power and 4.10 gears.
I kinda bypassed the "RV" cams....


LOL

This was my work truck for years....



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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 01:06 PM
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Crazy Mopar,

yes, for "optimum" hwy truck passing acceleration rate at 60mph a higher HP/TQ peak rpm's cam is likely better if you are at 3,000....(it winds up quicker at mid rpms)

yes, the RV cam HP and TQ are going to drop some above 4500 when passing.... but.... the steep gears are multiplying the available TQ by so much it will still accelerate at very close to a higher HP/TQ peak rpms cam....(and have a quicker 0-60mph time)

I mentioned the RV cam just for the idea/principle...(max A/F velocity and Hg at low rpms to make max low rpms TQ and stock parts are fine)
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 05:23 PM
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With your setup I would run a highway gear, if a big block is built to PULL (built for low end torque) then that is what I would use it for. Unless towing......

To each his own.
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