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Old 07-23-2013, 10:09 AM
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441 Heads/cam

I have pretty anemic 350 in my 72 Chevy C20 pickup. I have added headers, intake, roller tip rockers, it has 4:10 gears and a finely tuned Qjet. The engine has 882 heads. I recently had a chance to buy some vortecs for $100 but decided I wanted to keep the stock look. I ended up with a set of 441s for $125. I was told they had 5000 miles on the rework. I got them home and pulled them apart and discovered that they did not get valve inserts but there was no valve recession. In fact the seats looked pretty good and the valves seal very well. I want to replace the 882 for these. I will take them to the head shop to have them looked at. They have had some port work done but it could use a little more in the bowl. I was considering having them cut for 1.60 exhaust valves but leaving the 1.94 intakes to help develop more torque (which is what I am after). I also plan on using Felpro 1094 head gaskets for a little more compression. Should I back cut the valves to 30 degrees?

I have read a lot about matching the heads and the cam. I have no idea what cam is in the engine. Is there a way I can determine what the cam specs are without pulling it out? Again I am looking for torque not hp.

Thanks for the help

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Old 07-23-2013, 04:36 PM
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the vortecs are probably what you want
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:54 PM
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Speedway has an adapter that will let you run perimeter bolt valve covers on centerbolt heads.Others have the adapter,but,Speedway has the best price I've seen on them.Other than that,any other Old School stuff will work with the Vortecs.The intakes have a different bolt pattern & runner hgt,but,that's not something that is really obvious unless you're lookin for it.Since you don't know your cam specs,you will need to ck all clearances no matter which head you use.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:59 PM
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Feed us with complete info and we'll backfeed to you correct answers.Cam??. Current compression ratio??. Ect,ect......
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
I have pretty anemic 350 in my 72 Chevy C20 pickup. I have added headers, intake, roller tip rockers, it has 4:10 gears and a finely tuned Qjet. The engine has 882 heads. I recently had a chance to buy some vortecs for $100 but decided I wanted to keep the stock look. I ended up with a set of 441s for $125. I was told they had 5000 miles on the rework. I got them home and pulled them apart and discovered that they did not get valve inserts but there was no valve recession. In fact the seats looked pretty good and the valves seal very well. I want to replace the 882 for these. I will take them to the head shop to have them looked at. They have had some port work done but it could use a little more in the bowl. I was considering having them cut for 1.60 exhaust valves but leaving the 1.94 intakes to help develop more torque (which is what I am after). I also plan on using Felpro 1094 head gaskets for a little more compression. Should I back cut the valves to 30 degrees?

I have read a lot about matching the heads and the cam. I have no idea what cam is in the engine. Is there a way I can determine what the cam specs are without pulling it out? Again I am looking for torque not hp.

Thanks for the help
X 2 on the Vortecs. The thing is, the 441 heads- while maybe being a bit better flowing than the 882- is still an open chamber smog head. All they really have going for them is a bit more meat in the castings and a bit more intake port volume. Otherwise it's more of a step sideways, not up. Nothing at all like the improvement you'd see from a L31 Vortec, that's for sure.

If you use a shim head gasket the head and block decks need to be FLAT. Also be sure the quench distance is OK. If the block has been decked, you might be tight so check the piston deck clearance.

Backcutting the valves w/a 30 degree cut has been shown to improve flow in many cases. It's a relatively cheap improvement, I'd do it. Vortec heads come backcut from the factory.

Last edited by cobalt327; 07-24-2013 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:26 AM
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I have never had the engine apart so I really don't know what I have. (Another good reason to change heads so I can get a good look at the interior workings.) I just have never been satisfied with the power. I believe the 882s are 76cc and the 441s are 73cc (depending where you get your info) so there should be a slight cr increase. The thinner gasket should also help some. I might have to use an .028. I won't be able to deck the block since it will stay in the truck but I will have the head decked. I am assuming that the pistons are pretty far in the hole and don't expect any valve clearance issues. The 441s are from 69-70 so they are not a smog head. The 882s definitly are. I think I will go with the 1.60 exhaust valves, unshroud the valve area and have them back cut. I will also clean up the bowls. Some of the runner work has already been done. I have seen a number of combinations with these heads that produce 400 hp and 400 lbs of torque and they are not prone to cracking.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
The 441s are from 69-70 so they are not a smog head.
A few will differ w/you on that distinction: https://www.google.com/search?q=441+...ient=firefox-a

Don't know if you were around to remember the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1970 (which ushered in the beginning of the EPA), but that was a continuance of the Clean Air Act of 1963, followed by the Air Quality Act of 1967.

So I call then smog heads, but in the end it really doesn't matter- call them what you will. They are small valve, open chamber (nominal 76cc) low compression heads. Just like the 883, except the 441 doesn't have hardened exhaust seats. Maybe that makes then non smog, I dunno.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:05 PM
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The 441 has a better intake and a much better exhaust port in stock form than the 882.
When you port them they are not too bad. But don't expect much without the porting.
The 305HO heads I do are pretty much the same porting job deal but the chamber is a lot smaller
easy to get compression on a 350. Thats why I use them for budget builds.
The 081(305) and 083 (350) heads from the TPI motors are good choices too.
The vortecs are the best.

For the purpose of low rpm driving and fuel efficiency the Swirl port heads work good for this.

You are just replacing one old head with another old head.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:42 PM
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I am not looking for a lot of compression increase. I would like to be at about 9:1 or just under. The head swap will also give me a look at everything else like the cylinder walls and piston tops.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:16 PM
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Then why are you bothering with another 76cc head that will give a 8.5:1cr?

Unless you stick a cylinder head on it that is different and better than the old head
you are wasting your time and money.

You seem to want change, without changing anything.

Find some brand new 062 or 906 L31 vortecs and bolt them on with a new vortec intake shut the hood and drive it.
They are more efficient in every respect.
Nobody cares if the motor is original or looks original. Did you buy it to look at it or to drive it?
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