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Old 07-01-2005, 08:23 AM
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A 454 is a 427 with a crank or rods or what?

Ok, everyone has been helping me out a lot over the past weeks. Hopefully this is about the last question I have before I can finish ordering all of my parts to get my engine back together.

Ok, I have a 454 block std bore. I also ordered a 427 forged crankshaft. This is where I start to get confused and hopefully I didn't make a mistake since I can't return the crankshaft.

Do I need a special length rod or a different piston to complete this engine? I've seen both 427 rods and pistons and I'm honestly just starting to get very confused with this all.

I was originally told to make a 427 with a 454 block it was a 454 crank with regular rods and just different pistons.

Overall I'm just getting confused with all of this as it is my first engine buildup and I'm down to just needing to order pistons and rods.

Thanks a lot

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Old 07-01-2005, 10:02 AM
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yes a 427 and a 454 block are thing
same... a 427 and the 396 has a smaller crank (3.76) ...use your block buy a 396 or 427 crank ..buy pistons for a 427 ..and the rods for a 427 and 454 are the same....as with all the bearings and gaskets
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Old 07-01-2005, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 347mustang
yes a 427 and a 454 block are thing
same... a 427 and the 396 has a smaller crank (3.76) ...use your block buy a 396 or 427 crank ..buy pistons for a 427 ..and the rods for a 427 and 454 are the same....as with all the bearings and gaskets
Ok, so my block is good, my crankshaft is good. Then I should buy some 427 pistons (which coincidentally are getting harder and harder to find). And some 454 rods. Can anyone recommend a good piston or rod to use? I haev maybe 800$ or so to spend on both of them together. I was thinking of using the Eagle H Beam or the Manley sportsmaster rods. And possibly some TRW Speed-Pro postons for a 427 with the following specs:

6.135 Rod Length, 0.140 Dome ClosedChamber which should give me a 9.5 CR ratio with 118cc heads I believe.

Thanks again for the help! Really have been learning a lot here recently.
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Old 07-01-2005, 10:38 AM
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800.00 to spend...400.00 for some good h-beams..and 400 for some good pistons...
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:07 PM
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Sorry but with a .140 dome (closed chamber type piston) and 118 cc heads you only get about 8.5 to 1 compression... Might want to move up to a .260 or taller dome with a closed chamber type piston...? (makes 10 to 1) Also save yourself some money and use the 3/8ths bolt truck rods but use ARP bolts... The rods are lighter and plenty strong for street/strip use...


BTW the only difference between the 454 & 427 is the crank & pistons (4.00 stroke for the 454 & 3.76 stroke for the 427) the blocks and rods are the same... (basicly)

Last edited by Bumpstick; 07-01-2005 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:21 PM
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please corrct me if im wrong..but can you even run a dome top piston with a closed chamber head...unless they have pistons for that head..i guess...
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:48 PM
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That is the problem with a 427 and late model open chamber heads (119cc), it is hard to get the compression ratio up. That is why I always try to talk people into doing a 454. Makes more power and has more part options. But that is water under the bridge since you are stuck with the 427 crank.

Yes, the 427 and 454 block are interchangable. The 427 needs a different crank, pistons, balancer, and flywheel. The 454 and 427 and 396 all use the same rod.

Yes, there can be some issues with the bigger domes that were meant for the close chambers if used on the open chamber heads. Could have some interference problems and some slower flame travel issues because of the domes. FYI, slow flame travel will require more ignition timing.

You could find an old set of close chamber heads and have them rebuilt at a later time if you need to raise the compression ratio. Early 70' model 396/402 heads will work nicely with a bigger set of valves. I have a set like that and are 110cc chambers, machined to hold 2.19/1.88 valves, 245 cc intake ports, and flow 260 cfm on the intake and 199 cfm on the exhaust at 0.500". Not too bad!

Just use your old rods. Get them resized and install a set of arp rod bolts.

8.5:1 cr isn't that bad since you are spraying N20. What size dome were you using before on your 427 with 119cc head?
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpstick
Sorry but with a .140 dome (closed chamber type piston) and 118 cc heads you only get about 8.5 to 1 compression... Might want to move up to a .260 or taller dome with a closed chamber type piston...? (makes 10 to 1) Also save yourself some money and use the 3/8ths bolt truck rods but use ARP bolts... The rods are lighter and plenty strong for street/strip use...


BTW the only difference between the 454 & 427 is the crank & pistons (4.00 stroke for the 454 & 3.76 stroke for the 427) the blocks and rods are the same... (basicly)
Ok, these are the pistons that I was using:

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp

So you would suggest trying to find something to make a bit more compression? The odd thing is that these were supposed to have about a 8.67:1 compression ratio but I still needed to run premium gas or I would get pinging.
Also as far as the truck rods this engine is being built for approximatly 500hp or so HP on the engine side (hopefully ) and right now sees a 150 shot of nitrous that might get increased to 250 in the future after I see how things work out. Right now I just want to make sure to keep this engine as well built as possible but still within a budget.
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Old 07-01-2005, 02:03 PM
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Truck rods, car rods, it is all about the same thing. The rod bolts do most of the work at moderate hp levels.

Detonation at 8.67:1 is a sign of a small cam or extremely advanced ignition timing. What cam did you use before?

To make 500hp you will need a head that flows at least 250cfm at the max lift of the cam you plan on using.

To make 500hp (all motor) with a 427 you will need a pretty good size cam. Like a CompCam Magnum 280 or 292 and a good set of valve springs. And those cams need compression! Between 9.5 to 10:1 cr. But you can lower it a bit if you plan on spraying N20 but off N20 power will suffer.

Or you can do what I did a few years ago. Get a 1 gallon fuel cell and a Mallory comp110 pump to feed the N20 system. Then you can fill the small fuel cell with racing fuel. One gallon of fuel will last about one bottle of N20 with a 150 hp shot. I mounted the small fuel cell and pump in the engine compartment. Worked great! This way you don't need to lower cr or timing to spray N20.
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Old 07-01-2005, 04:14 PM
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esears... take a look here under pistons and of course under TRW and on to BBC`s you will find lots of interesting facts on pistons with various size chambers... I like running the closed chamber type dome with an open chamber head... Not sure about flame travel but they seem to work real good none the less...

Also not the same truck rods Vs car rods... Some car rods are narrow beam while most all truck rods are wide in beam this is mainly in the later years 70`s on... The best IMPO are the 3/8ths dimple rods that are full floating... Lighter and stronger... But of course you can go aftermarket but unless your turning over 7K it would be a waste of $$$...
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Old 07-01-2005, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
Truck rods, car rods, it is all about the same thing. The rod bolts do most of the work at moderate hp levels.

Detonation at 8.67:1 is a sign of a small cam or extremely advanced ignition timing. What cam did you use before?

To make 500hp you will need a head that flows at least 250cfm at the max lift of the cam you plan on using.

To make 500hp (all motor) with a 427 you will need a pretty good size cam. Like a CompCam Magnum 280 or 292 and a good set of valve springs. And those cams need compression! Between 9.5 to 10:1 cr. But you can lower it a bit if you plan on spraying N20 but off N20 power will suffer.

Or you can do what I did a few years ago. Get a 1 gallon fuel cell and a Mallory comp110 pump to feed the N20 system. Then you can fill the small fuel cell with racing fuel. One gallon of fuel will last about one bottle of N20 with a 150 hp shot. I mounted the small fuel cell and pump in the engine compartment. Worked great! This way you don't need to lower cr or timing to spray N20.
The cam I am going to now is 545 at 236 for intake and 540 at 240 for exhaust with a 112 lobe seperation. This was recommended by Howard's Cams and I've had good dealings with them.

The previous can I was using before this was .575" intake with 274 duration at .050, and .575" exhaust with 275 duration at .050. I had a bunch of driveability problems with this one and tried moving the powerrange down a bit.

I've already ordered a battery relocation kit purely for the fact that I can put a small fuel cell in the front. Thanks for the idea though.

So pretty much the BBC "Dimple" rods that I could order through Scoggin Dickey would be more than enough for me? The price is definetly right at 389 for a set although they also offer a set of Scat 4340 I-Beam rods with arp cap screws for about 259. So still 2 choices left to do as far as getting this done.
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