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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2010, 07:22 PM
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i was mostly just asking if flat top piston work better than domed pistons.
(when the application allows the use)

here are some 100cc heads http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...rformer1.shtml

sorry for getting the middle of your thread with my questions

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2010, 07:26 PM
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I also have read that too. That's why I was hoping for a small dome like the speed pros to get good flame travel.


The link is the edelbrocks I was talking about. not worth almost 2g for those flow numbers. for a few hundred more the race rites and afrs flow better
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:46 PM
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To answer Matts37chev, if you can use a flat top and get the compression ratio you need, it is better from a flame travel standpoint just like you thought. Current Nascar tech has gone to the use of a reverse dome/reflector dish(dish with quench pads) piston and a very small chamber to get the mixture confined to a small area in the center of the cylinder bore right under the sparkplug as this is the most highly efficient area.

Hard to find aftermarket small chamber BBC heads, most are based around the 119cc open chamber. This sort of came from the fact the aftermarket were trying to offer replacements for the stock open chamber head everyone was using without changing their compression ratio, so 118-119cc became the 'de facto' standard.. Sort of how the 64cc chamber became the SBC norm too.

I agree, Edelbrocks head flow #'s are pretty sad for the money spent, lots of better choices IMO
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:59 PM
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thanks,
i was just throwing out those 100cc edelbrocks only because he said thats what he would need, like none were available.
they wouldnt be my first choice, ive been dreaming of some race-rites.

last question,from one of the previous the statments.

are most of the stroker(496) flat tops in the 9.0 plus cr range, with the bigger cc heads?
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:08 PM
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When I was gonna build mine to a stroker flat tops put me in the 9:1 plus range.


Basicly like you just stated I'm not going for flat tops due to the lack of selection of heads for my desired CR
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
thanks,
i was just throwing out those 100cc edelbrocks only because he said thats what he would need, like none were available.
they wouldnt be my first choice, ive been dreaming of some race-rites.

last question,from one of the previous the statments.

are most of the stroker(496) flat tops in the 9.0 plus cr range, with the bigger cc heads?
Just as an example, a 496(4.310" bore x 4.25" stroke) with flat tops, 5cc of valve relief, .041" gasket and zero quench with a 119 cc chamber only gets you 8.6-1 compression.

See, very hard to get compression on a BBC with a flat top piston. You'd have to go to as big as 540 to get anything decent with 119cc chambers, that is why most BBC pistons have at least a small dome on them.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:32 PM
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Oh I was looking at 113cc and 112cc to get the CR (still thinkin 820s)
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:38 PM
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if i may ask your oppinion
what is the least amount of cr to make this cam useable in a 496 with big valve 781 heads and an RPM Air Gap with shorty headers?

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=396&sb=2

my machine shop said he would use flat tops (i think,its been about 6 months)
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:42 PM
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ekacpuc, what is your target cr? and why?
performance, avalaible fuel, or?
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
if i may ask your oppinion
what is the least amount of cr to make this cam useable in a 496 with big valve 781 heads and an RPM Air Gap with shorty headers?

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=396&sb=2

my machine shop said he would use flat tops (i think,its been about 6 months)
Truthfully, it might be a little low by race standards with an 8.5-1 compression, ideal would be around 9.5-1, but with that said,.... in a street car or street/strip car you will never even notice it might be down on power below the torque peak because of the lower compression ratio, the engine is sooo big with sooo much low end torque to spare your never going to get it hooked to the ground good enough to find out that fact. Without a full race drag suspension and slicks to make it hook you will never find out it might be missing a .01 second from ideal in the 60' time.

What you have planned will be fine Cam power band will start about 400 rpm sooner because of the 40 more cubic inches, that 1800 to 5600 rpm band is based off of 454 cubes(just like all catalog cam listings for BBC, based off the most common engine. SBC cams are based off 350 cubes).

Last edited by ericnova72; 12-21-2010 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:08 PM
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Iron heads 9:1 to 9.3:1 with my XR288HR I guess if I goto alum I'll shoot for around .5 higher.

Because I think the early nines are a good goal for a hot street motor. I also only have 87, 89 and 90 octane available.


I was looking at that cam when I was thinking about going flat tops with my 60 over block and 820s at zero deck. Gave me around a 8.5:1 CR. I just want it to be nastyier than that I guess. I like the loopy idle (not a fan of thumpr) and am shooting for a 6000 rpm cam (any more I think is crazy for my goals).


Okay here's where it gets silly.. I wanna race a 1970 nova with a T10 stick and open diffs, oh it has a 427 stroker SBC in it.. He didn't pay attention to quench or CR just put a nasty solid cam on it.

Also my dads audi TT runs 14s in the 1/4 mi. I wanna for sure BEAT it.

I have a 1977 C10 that's getting a 4 link and a TH350. I know no weight but if I could get her rollin THEN romp on it I think it wont be bad.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:12 PM
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ok, thanks
i left out the fact i have the 1.72 ratio rockers.
a hair more lift but shouldn't change that much.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekacpuc
Iron heads 9:1 to 9.3:1 with my XR288HR I guess if I goto alum I'll shoot for around .5 higher.

Because I think the early nines are a good goal for a hot street motor. I also only have 87, 89 and 90 octane available.


I was looking at that cam when I was thinking about going flat tops with my 60 over block and 820s at zero deck. Gave me around a 8.5:1 CR. I just want it to be nastyier than that I guess. I like the loopy idle (not a fan of thumpr) and am shooting for a 6000 rpm cam (any more I think is crazy for my goals).


Okay here's where it gets silly.. I wanna race a 1970 nova with a T10 stick and open diffs, oh it has a 427 stroker SBC in it.. He didn't pay attention to quench or CR just put a nasty solid cam on it.

Also my dads audi TT runs 14s in the 1/4 mi. I wanna for sure BEAT it.

I have a 1977 C10 that's getting a 4 link and a TH350. I know no weight but if I could get her rollin THEN romp on it I think it wont be bad.
whipping up on your buddies is the whole reason we build big motors
not counting the burn outs and the feeling of headrest actually on your head
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:20 PM
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I have to add that if you're making a stroker I would move to a bigger cam. If I'm correct it moves the power band down a bit so a bigger cam wont hurt you down low, should help.


Anyways who knows what I'll do. I'm shotting for AFRs with a small domed piston I guess.


Prob shoulda supercharged it with some flat tops and the 820s
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:23 PM
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The story goes deeper... The 454 I bought from the nova guy. He was gonna run it as is but the cylinders had huge nicks and the block is 60 over anyways. Then he told me the pistons where forged but they're hyper or cast. So all in all I just got a forged rotating assembly (with 60 over pistons) and a set of 820s that need guides. I really wanted to make the 820s work and go for the 9:1 CR using 10cc forged pistons (have to go custom) AND get 500ish hp. So I wanted to not loose so bad using parts I bought from him (I really wanna win but thats crazy, wont hook up Im sure).


When/if I loose I'll plunk a 2332 in my 72 v.w beetle and smoke him with that
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