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Old 04-19-2010, 06:50 PM
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454 build up

So I finally got my 454 yesterday and discovered the cylinders have some spots where its rough. I didn't notice in the dark garage I was sadly more excited about everything being forged.. So I called the guy who sold it to me and he gave me what I thought was a line so I took it out to the machine shop. The machinist said to "run her how she is". He said that he honed it for the guy I bought it from but since its 60 over that all he could do is sleeve it and he didn't seem to want to.. Didn't seem worried either.. I guess the engine sat for awhile with heads off and rust formed where the rings sat. He said it will just burn a little oil but thats normal with 454s anyways. Should I shell out the cash and have him sleeve it? I'd need new pistons too then I'm sure. He said my pistons are good too.

Brings me to my next question. The motor came with a set of heads that need a seat worked and a new guide. The machinist said he could make them "rightous" for $250. I see a number on them and its "3993820". If I had them "worked" can I make some good power #s with them? I assume I'd need to have bigger valves put in and maybe a mild port/polish? I was thinking about going with the edelbrock performer 100cc on em for the 290cc intake and the spark plug is moved... I have flat top pistons with valve reliefs what kind of CR am I looking at with the stock heads? Could I have it milled to get close to a 9:1 like I can with the 100cc edelbrocks?

Its going into a 1977 C10 stepside thats been slammed. Just would like it to be quick...


I did very clearly ask him if its worth me building into a working engine or if I needed to find a new block. He said since its not a all out race car use it the way it is..
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:04 PM
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i would see another shop.. im almost sure you can bore a 454bbc well over .060. i dont think they would sell 454 .100 over hp pistons if it couldent be done safely. so surely you can get JE .080 and be good. and if the same guy said he would build you a rock'n set of heads for 250.00 he is prolly thinkin of bending you over" just my opinion" w/ a 454 your gonna make a lot of power with out all the high po parts decent cam 800cfm holly and single plane intake will be enough to suprise most challengers.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:06 PM
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I guess he said 500 a pair. He rattled off too much for me to understand... He's good at what he does. He's also the only machinist in town and I live on a remote island in alaska so I'm SOL. My father had him do some work for him and it worked out real nice. So with those 820s should I have him goto the 2.19/1.88 valves since I have to have him change guides too?
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:18 PM
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again just my opinion. but buildin a motor is like say cooking.. you got different recipes for different outcomes. if you think your gonna build a high revving motor maybe up the valves and get a race port? but keep in mind for about 800.00 you can buy much better heads ready to run. if its gonna be a mild build those open chambers will move alot of air no need for any more work say a bowl blend and gasket match. first see what cam/ compression you wanna run then see if the head work is needed.
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:58 PM
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I am just about to drop a 454 into my car. .020 454 with flat tops, I honed it, added a comp xe268h, my 820 heads have 2.19 - 1.88 valves and better springs. The shop deshrouded the valves and pocket ported one intake and one exhaust, then I copied this model on the rest. I have an old edelbrock c396 intake, a 750 vac holley. They milled the heads .030, after milling chambers cc'd 112 -114. I used a steel shim head gasket, compression will be right around 8.3.. Headers are 1 7/8. This is a very similar build to a couple of 454's I seen on the net and they seem to perfrom well for a mild engine. Getting compression above 8.5 will take heads with smaller chambers, or different pistons. Hope this helps.

Will know how mine runs in a couple or three weeks.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:07 AM
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I originally was interested in the performer 100cc heads with a edelbrock RPM hyd roller cam. How much can I have the 820s milled? I think they're 113cc now if I could get to 106cc I would have a 9:1 CR with those flat tops. I don't expect to go over 5500 and for sure not over 5800 rpm... Hoping to make over 450hp with tons of torque. I don't see any aftermarket heads in the $800 range plus I'd have to have it shipped so If I did find heads got to tack on $150 or so for shipping. All I've really found have huge chambers (119cc) and I'd like to get as close to 9:1 as possible.

What I'm really wondering is what kind of sacrafice will I see from having those heads worked and milled as much as possible vs going to something like the edelbrock performer heads. I realise I'll have a heck of a time getting to the 8.5:1 mark with the 820s though..

Also I'm gonna goto a Hyd roller cam no matter what I end up doing head wise..

What can I expect with a 8.2:1 CR a roller cam like XR264HR-10 and those 820s worked over?

Last edited by ekacpuc; 04-20-2010 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:27 AM
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I guess another option might be to find a set of older heads with smaller chambers. Could likely mill more off the heads you have if they haven't been cut before. Intake surface will need to be milled as well.

Costs start to add up. I looked at aluminum heads, but the cost, and the intake runner size were a concern. Mine is a mild build, huge intake ports and high cost was not the best for what I was trying to do. 400 hp or more should be attainable with compression in the lower 8's.

9 to 1 will require more cost, if your build is on the milder side then 9 to one may not be ness. to acheive the hp numbers you are looking for.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:36 AM
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you can bore a 454 to +0.090 without thinking twice about it.

820's are nice flowing heads, especially on the exhaust side, as the combustion chamber shape naturally unshroudes the exhaust valve. So no need for a split duration cam. my 820's flowed 200 cfm at 0.500" on the exhaust and 260 cfm on the intake.

113cc will make about 8.4:1 with a 0.040" felpro head gasket, and a 100cc will make about 9.2:1 cr with a 0.040" felpro.

if you bore the engine then get a set of pistons with a dome to increase compression to 9.5:1, run a compcam 280H with the correct valve springs, long tube headers, 2500 stall, rpm intake, holley 3310 750, and a 3.55 gear.

also, use zddp oil additive. zddplus.com
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:47 PM
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dont you think a 750 and an rpm is kinda small for a 454 w. a 280h and a stall? i would def. use a single plane and atleast an 850.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckytruck
dont you think a 750 and an rpm is kinda small for a 454 w. a 280h and a stall? i would def. use a single plane and atleast an 850.

I was thinking a 850 and a dual plane just because I saw better low rpm results with a min high rpm power loss. 7 to 9 hp doesn't seem to bad up high when they're getting 10 - 12 more down low where I'll be most the time.

I was also thinking about not going with anything bigger than the 270h
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:31 PM
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it's your motor .. i still think its alot of cam and a single plane would be best. but go how you wanna you can always change it later if you like.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:34 PM
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You'd use those 820s with a 280H? even with a CR of 8.2:1? I'm gonna have them milled down to 109cc (I hope) to get a bit more but I thought that anything under 9:1 is to low for the magnum 280..
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:38 AM
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If you are not going to change the pistons and use the 820 heads then plan on using a cam smaller than the 280H and making less than 450hp.

I would use a thinner head gasket (0.023") and take a few cc's off the head to make 8.7:1 cr. Then use a compcam 268H, long tube headers, performer RPM, 750 holley 3310, 2400 stall, with a 3.42 -3.55 gear with 28 inch tall tires, dual 2-1/2 exhaust with a set of hooker aerochambers and a a set of dynomax bullets after the headers.

This is around a 400-420hp/490-500 ftlb build. good street engine for your truck.

cr= (958cc + 111 + 5 + 4 + 4)/ (111 + 5 + 4 + 4)= 8.725

958cc/cylinder
111cc head chamber
5cc thinner head gasket
4cc pistion below deck 0.015"
4cc valve reliefs.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:02 PM
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I'm using the 820 heads on my build, they have the large valves and springs are matched to the comp 280H cam. The cam works because I used the 25cc dome pistons (+.030) which puts compression up towards 10.5:1, dynamic compression with the long overlap on the cam is close to 9.5:1.

I had to work the chambers to clear the domed pistons (a lot of work with a stupid little dremel); then I worked the chambers to get rid of any edges that might create hot spots. They still cc'd at 113. Another trick when pushing compression up too high is to put Singh grooves in the heads (search the net - you'll be surprised what you'll find). Running this motor on pump gas will be tricky - I'm hoping that the Singh grooves provide a wider tuning range so that I can avoid detonation.

Search my threads and you can find the results from a fellow hotrodder's simulation that indicates I'll be around 550hp with 600ftlb of torque.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:15 PM
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FYI, it isn't the "long overlap" that effects the dynamic compression ratio (dcr), as the engine isn't trying to build compression during that part of the 4 stroke cycle. The intake closing point is what effects the dcr.

I would think 10.5:1 cr with a 280H compcam is too high, especially for a big block on pump gas. But glad it is working for you.
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