454 crank in a 396 block - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 02:11 PM
FiveFeezy's Avatar
Fishing poles in the hot rod!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 109
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
454 crank in a 396 block

Would a 454 crank in a 396 block make for a good combo? I figure that it adds up to a 427. Factory 427's were 454 blocks with 396 cranks in them though. Would the other way make a good combo?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 02:16 PM
Guy Hiltz's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 1,003
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
454 crank in a 396 block

The 454 crank is externally balanced so this could create problems if mismatched parts are used.You could have it internally balanced.You also may have to check rod clearance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 02:24 PM
FiveFeezy's Avatar
Fishing poles in the hot rod!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 109
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah I have the 454 crank with the matching balancer and flexplate for it. And I read in a book that clearancing the block is pretty easy. What I am wondering is if this combination of a small piston with a large stroke crank would produce good power numbers?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 03:16 PM
Guy Hiltz's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 1,003
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
454 crank in a 396 block

Well I'm not real sure but if you are going to use a stock bore 396 this will give you a CID of 421,an overbore would be a bit bigger.Now i'm going to go out on a limb and say that this combo is "oversquare" as are all Chevy engines.This means that the bore is more than the stroke.I have been looking through my big block Chevy books and I didnt see anything on this combo.The only reference I could find said that a large bore and short stroke are ideal for high horsepower motors but they will sacrifice low and mid range torque.A long stroke motor will give a big increase in torque but have limited high rpm range.This might be a real good motor with the proper selection of parts,guess you wont know until you try,but it would probably work pretty good,after all,its a Big Block!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 05:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Redondo beach ,CA
Age: 34
Posts: 335
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They sell the pistons at powerhouse
http://shop.enginekits.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=791
Good luck sounds like an interesting motor.Let us know how it works for you
Bonzipenguins@aol.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 07:50 PM
Bumpstick's Avatar
Hammer and a torch
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southeast TX
Age: 54
Posts: 1,258
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kinda like a larger 366 setup...? Small bore + long stroke = mucho Torque...

Kinda the same effect as the 400 crank in the 305 block...

Only drawback I can see is the upper end will suffer but with a set of large ovals and keep the stock valve size to keep the charge speed up, then you should have something that the 4X4 boys would drool over...

Also cam it with a straight across cam (same lift and duration on both intake and exhaust) Most likely get even more out of the bottom end...? Come to think of it this might be a good use for a set of closed chamber ovals and flat top pistons...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 08:10 PM
topfuel's Avatar
ASE Certified Master Machinist
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild an engine
Last journal entry: More Pics
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Age: 53
Posts: 329
Wiki Edits: 6

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Many years ago I had a customer who wanted this same combination for an Impala SS. They do make lots of torque and run well. This customer wanted to go one better though. He had me balance the 454 crank with mallory so he could use the 396 balancer and keep the sleeper look. People were always commenting on how fast that 396 Impala was.

Barry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 08:27 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 416
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had plans on building this combination for the Engine Master's challenge,and I still feel that it could be a viable combination.I didnt have the time to get involved this year,but I had mapped out the entire combo.This combo would have a major advantage if the compression ratio rule hadnt be put in place since the smaller bores would help control detonation.I like it for a few other reason.My plan was to use a thick wall 1965 block which has the same casting as a 427,and therefore would have very thick walls when left at a 4.155" bore,and with a half fill would have had ring seal and wall stabilty that was better then any aftermarket block.I liked the idea that I could use the stock 6,135" rods and still have a fairly short piston,but not so short that I couldnt move the rings down to make room for deeper bore notches.My ace in the hole was going to be a set of very trick closed chamber oval port heads.My plan was to take a set of small valve closed heads,bush the guides down to 5/16" and offset them .080" or so,then install big 2.300" intake valves with minimal chamber opening.With this setup I could have had a tight chamber and a lot of quanch area and also I was planning on flat milling the heads about .100" which would have allowed me to get a 10.5:1 compression ratio with a minimal sized dome,and the engine would have made major power with minimal ignition lead.With valves that big,and heads that are flat milled .100" along with a camshaft with about .850" lift,you could see why I was concerned about getting in the biggest bore notches possible.I wasnt looking to win this thing,but you know my mouth{and my fingers} would have been flapping madd do-do at warp speed if I could have beat out even a handfull of aftermarket blocked alloy headed Chevy motors with my engine that was built out of all the parts everybody else would have thrown away.

So unless you happen to trip over a nearly free 454 block in the near future,I say go for it.Good luck.

BTW,if the rocker alignment was off with my repositioned intake valves,my plan was to cut the guideplates in half and spin them around a little on the stud until the rockers aligned then weld them back together.Nothing like a little ghetto engineering.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2006, 04:10 PM
FiveFeezy's Avatar
Fishing poles in the hot rod!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 109
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, you guys know some stuff! I like the idea of internally balancing it for the sleeper look. Is it expensive to do that?

Are the closed chamber heads better just to get the proper compression ratio? I have a set of open chamber 781 heads. Would it be better to use these with some pop-up pistons?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2006, 05:17 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 416
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Open chamber heads breathe better and if you plan on putting in bigger valves,they are the way to go.My combination was going to take a huge amount of custom work and would be worth it for any type of street engine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2006, 02:08 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 875
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In the research of my 396 build-up I couldnt find a piston to get any compression with open chamber heads so I traded a set of 781s for a set of 063 96.5 cc chamber heads to get right at 11.5:1 with a TRW piston. The ideal head would be a rect port closed chamber but good luck finding an affordable set. The numbers matching guys will pay big $$$$ for those heads. The 063 came factory on 390 hp motors and with bigger valves and good port work they should support 550 hp plus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2006, 05:43 PM
topfuel's Avatar
ASE Certified Master Machinist
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild an engine
Last journal entry: More Pics
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Age: 53
Posts: 329
Wiki Edits: 6

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveFeezy
Wow, you guys know some stuff! I like the idea of internally balancing it for the sleeper look. Is it expensive to do that?

Are the closed chamber heads better just to get the proper compression ratio? I have a set of open chamber 781 heads. Would it be better to use these with some pop-up pistons?
The real expense in internally balancing will be the cost of the mallory. Depending on your local machinists, it is usually about double the cost of a standard balance job.

As far as heads go, with the small bore of the 396 block, a small chamber size would work best. You want to use as small of a chamber and dome as possible, as long as the valves aren't shrouded by the chamber wall. The 063 heads BBCmudbogger mentioned would work well as would the 702.

Barry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
396 big block and 427 tall deck balance 85Sierra Engine 10 03-07-2014 06:59 PM
the history of chevy v8's savman1 Hotrodders' Lounge 43 03-02-2012 06:57 PM
396 chevy big block mac350 Engine 9 11-10-2005 04:09 PM
400 block 350 crank 78 chevy truck Engine 5 09-18-2003 03:05 PM
454 turned 396 swap crash Engine 3 04-06-2002 09:02 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.