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Old 05-03-2013, 12:31 PM
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454 crankshaft end play

Today I installed a new flexplate and removed the harmonic balencer bolt on my 454. I noticed a little play when I moved the pulley back and forth and i would here a bong sound. I did the same thing to my running 305 ( had it for 9 yrs) in my 69 chevelle, had the same play. Is this normal? Or am I losing it?

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Old 05-03-2013, 02:30 PM
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You do need some end play, a reasonable amount of BBC crank end play (back and forth movement) is .005" to .007" with caps installed.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:55 PM
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Ok, now my engine is an assembled long block, I would still have end play with the rods and pistons installed?
Do I have to remove the harmonic balancer to check end play?
Do I need to remove the water pump and timing chain?
Then, where do I set the dial indicator?
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:02 PM
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Well, you have to have the pan off, without excessive pressure, pry the crank all the way forward, set your dial indicator on the crank flange, zero it and move the crank to the rear, see how much it moves. If it's not enough, it's been said you can slam it with a BFH to seat the thrust bearing, not my style though...
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:15 PM
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Well I took my pan off and found out the oil pick up is to big for my 69 chevelle oil pan. I also found a v shaped groove on the side of the rear main cap, can this be repaired?
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:17 PM
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The short reply is if you replace main bearing caps you will need to have them resized/aligned, ala line bored/honed.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ss396si View Post
Well I took my pan off and found out the oil pick up is to big for my 69 chevelle oil pan. I also found a v shaped groove on the side of the rear main cap, can this be repaired?
The V-shaped groove is where the cap was machined at the factory to make room for the oil pump drive to come down from the end of the distributor intermediate shaft, through the cap to engage the pump. Fear not, it's ok.

Not sure what you mean when you say the oil pickup is too big for the pan. Are you saying that the pickup sits down against the bottom of the pan or what? Ideal clearance from the bottom of the pickup to the bottom of the pan is about 3/8". If you get the pump pickup any closer than that, the pump can suck the pan bottom up against the pickup and shut off oil flow completely.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:26 PM
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I bought this motor used, the oil pan that it came with is larger compared to the 69 chevelle big block oil pan I purchased. I layed them side by side and the chevelle pan is shorter by an 1" or 2" next to the used pan. I test fit the chevelle pan on the block. The pan won't fit due to the oil pick up being to long. I put the other pan on and the pickup slides underneath the tray and bolts in.
So I'm thinking I might need a new pump. Summit sells an oil pump with pick up welded on,but its only sold in high volume pressue. If I purchase this pump I will have to change it to standard volume by changing the spring.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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So I'm thinking I might need a new pump. Summit sells an oil pump with pick up welded on,but its only sold in high volume pressue. If I purchase this pump I will have to change it to standard volume by changing the spring.
You don't necessarily need another pump, you just need a shorter pickup for the pump you have. This stuff ain't rocket surgery, you can cut and weld the pickup back together if you can weld or know someone who can weld without introducing dingleberries to the inside of the tube. The main thing you want to do is to properly position the pickup in relation to the bottom of the pan with ~3/8" clearance. Make an ice-cream-cone shaped piece of modeling clay (available from craft or hobby shops) and push it onto the bottom of the pickup. Put a little engine oil on the clay so that it will not stick to the pan. With the gasket in place around the lip of the pan, push the pan up into position where you would bolt it on. Now remove the pan and measure the ice cream cone of clay. If it has been shmushed against the pan bottom and sticks down ~3/8ths of an inch from the pickup, life is good. If not, go to plan B.

I'm making this sound almost whimsical, but believe me, this part of the build is CRITICAL
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:51 AM
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I ask alot Questions, how much oil is in the bottom of the pan of a running engine? How much oil does the pump have to keep the engine supplied with oil?
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:32 AM
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Ok, i successfully installed the stock pump. Now I removed my balancer and I noticed the front key is loose on the crank snout. How to I remove,measure and install a new one?
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:28 PM
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I checked crankshaft end play and read .012 off the dial indicator.
You think I need a new crank?

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Old 06-01-2013, 11:27 AM
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A loose keyway is a problem if the key isn't worn. That's a #9 Woodruff key. New ones are $.50 at a good hardware store, and yes, they're "hard" enough. If the new one is loose, the crank is worn. If you need to tap it in a little (not a lot), it's good. Be careful to not swedge the edges.

.012" really is a bit much end-play. If it's an auto trans, it's probably okay for medium duty. If a manual trans, no, it needs attention. It's probably not the crank that's worn, but the bearing. If the crank measures "round and straight" (literally) and has no damage, replacing the bearings will "fix" it. Over-sized thrust bearings are available, so the crank, even if damaged there, can be saved. If it's a "real" 396, it has a good steel crank, worth repairing. If it's a 402 crank, it's cast, but is still okay for medium duty. No welding on the casting...

Jim
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body View Post
A loose keyway is a problem if the key isn't worn. That's a #9 Woodruff key. New ones are $.50 at a good hardware store, and yes, they're "hard" enough. If the new one is loose, the crank is worn. If you need to tap it in a little (not a lot), it's good. Be careful to not swedge the edges.

.012" really is a bit much end-play. If it's an auto trans, it's probably okay for medium duty. If a manual trans, no, it needs attention. It's probably not the crank that's worn, but the bearing. If the crank measures "round and straight" (literally) and has no damage, replacing the bearings will "fix" it. Over-sized thrust bearings are available, so the crank, even if damaged there, can be saved. If it's a "real" 396, it has a good steel crank, worth repairing. If it's a 402 crank, it's cast, but is still okay for medium duty. No welding on the casting...

Jim
Thanks for the info. My engine is 454 oem crank. I will unbolt the rods and mains. Then put a dial indicator on the journals. To see if it spins true and straight. I've never rebuilt an engine before. How Can I install the pistons to connecting rods and the piston rings and bearings at home? What needs to be brought to the machine shop?
Can I buy a crank from summit and simply install it? Or do I have get it balanced?
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