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Old 05-22-2009, 02:12 PM
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454 engine combo?

hi right now i have a 1990 454ss with just heddman long tube headers k&n air filter with roller tip rockers and needing a rebuild since i want for it to run a low 11 second quarter mile or high 10's i would like to know if someone would like to help me get to my goal by using a comp cam and an edelbrock intake and carb...

i was thinking bout making it a 496 stroker carburated with maybe a procharger, any other ideas to run a low 11 without being a stroker and without using nitrous and procharger i would like to run those numbers on motor only...

thanks in advance...

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Old 05-22-2009, 03:10 PM
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It is going to boil down to how much money you are able to spend. It is possible without a doubt. Keep in mind a that an intercooled procharger setup is going to run you ~$7000.

From what I could find, that truck weighs around 4700 lbs. If you figure ~4900 with a driver, you will need ~750 hp at the wheels to get into the high 10's according the the ET calculator below. This is not an end all for a hp requirement, but it will get you into the ball park.

750 at the wheels will be around 1000 at the engine assuming a 75% loss to the wheels. In order to get this power on pump gas, you will need a procharger. The motor below should give you an idea as to what it will cost to get a engine with that hp.

http://www.smreperformance.com/centr...ne-1000hp.html

Adam

Last edited by firestone; 05-22-2009 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:56 PM
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so lets say with a 500hp+ what kind of numbers will i be looking at...???
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:05 PM
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With 500 hp, you would be looking at mid 13's. This would be quite a bit easier. A 454 with ported 2.19 1.88 valve 049 or 781 oval port heads will get you to 500 easily. I have a friend with the following engine.

468
9.5:1 compression
ported 2.19 1.88 valve 781 heads
victor jr intake (I would have recommended a performer RPM)
242 248 @.050 .600 lift hydraulic roller cam

This motor made 550 hp and 550 ft lbs

Adam
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkingof956
so lets say with a 500hp+ what kind of numbers will i be looking at...???
4700 lbs. w/500 HP might be well into the 12's, with an optimized set-up.

This is w/a Moroso slide rule-type calculator. As well as the calculators HERE and HERE.

This is not intended to contradict anyone's figures- this is just another estimate to be used for comparison's sake!
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:04 PM
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hard to get a 454 to run low numbers. heavy sluggish motors. never liked them 1 bit..gotta sink so much money into those things...which is probly why i see people near giving them away lol. get urself a 427 RAT! vrooooooooom
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet420
hard to get a 454 to run low numbers. heavy sluggish motors. never liked them 1 bit..gotta sink so much money into those things...
You are kidding, right?

Quote:
which is probly why i see people near giving them away
Line me up a dozen- hell, I'll even give you $50/ea.- and I'll be up next week to pick them up! lol
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:28 AM
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It is probably correct that 500 hp will put the truck into the 12's, I was just keeping consistant with the calculator I had used before. I also did not want to overstate what it may run. As an example, a guy from another site ran a 13.2 with a very simple 454 in a 1970 el camino. I would guess that this engine was only in the ~400-450 range.

Here is the link:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...ight=cheap+454

Adam
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:34 PM
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its pretty unreal how much 454's go for here. spend 200-300 bucks and you'll have a complete 454, every junkyard has them. no one wants them
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:51 AM
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well lets see here an engine combo i came up with... performer rpm air gap intake with ported stock 454ss heads, xe284h comp cam and flat top pistons or...

performer rpm air gap intake with afr alumminum heads with xe284h comp cam,with flat top pistons

truck right now is running like a 14.6 spinning and with a loose beam rod that makes a nocking sound and engine is less powerful and it has lost power when they only have less than 250hp but the headers and roller tip rockers is making the truck run like stock...mods are long tube headers,roller tip rockers,k&n air filter 4"tall and its running stock tbi with stock tbi heads... with a th400 transmission stock stall with stock 3.73's rear end posi...


so if i add a stall torque converter fix up all the tranny and engine making a lil more than 500hp with slicks will i be able to run an mid to low 11 n/a ???
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:48 AM
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This is just my opinion here based on my own limited experience at the track with my 550 hp 3700 lb '86 Monte Carlo SS.My best times are in the high 12's @ 112 mph,although with not much traction.I think it will take at least 600-700 hp to get a truck that weighs 1000 lbs more than my car into the 12's.You will need to spend some serious cash,AFR or Brodix heads,a big solid roller cam,single plane intake,big carb,plus add in the necessary machine work,align honing,balancing,etc...Maybe even a shot of NOS.You could go with your planned build,but dont count on getting into the 11's,but 13's could be possible.
Guy
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:38 AM
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Although I don't really know what my 1989 S10 weights, here is my combo that runs mid 11's. This sees no street time, drag racing only.

461 BBC
Speed Pro L2349F Pistons
Stock Crank & Rods
Comp Cam 294S Dur. - .595 Lift
Scorpion 1.7 Rockers
#215 Cast Heads cut to 2.19 in. & 1.88 ex. with Ferrea Valves
Edelbrock 454-O Intake
MalloryIgnition
1150 Dominator
TH400 w/brake
4500 Stall
Narrowed 9" w/ 33x16x15 Hossiers
456 gear set
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
4700 lbs. w/500 HP might be well into the 12's, with an optimized set-up.

This is w/a Moroso slide rule-type calculator. As well as the calculators HERE and HERE.

This is not intended to contradict anyone's figures- this is just another estimate to be used for comparison's sake!

That moroso slide rule is a good bookmark and that is about it. Try 827 HP and 1840 LBS. I own this combo and it runs 7.90s at 170 MPH. The Moroso says it will take quite a bit less power to do this. I usde to believe it before I raced for 20 years and then the real world set in.

The gear caculator is OK, it will help you figure your convertor slipage percent with a little math on your part.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H
That moroso slide rule is a good bookmark and that is about it. Try 827 HP and 1840 LBS. I own this combo and it runs 7.90s at 170 MPH.
The "bookmark" shows your combo to be good for 7.70's @ about 180- not too far off, certainly close enough for a bookmark, I think. Somewhere in the 9-10% error bracket. Considering the traction coefficients have changed quite a bit since the Moroso bookmark was new, that's not too shabby. Are you absolutely positive there's not a tenth anywhere in your set-up that isn't power or weight-related???

The two other, randomly selected calculators from the internet sited above, all agree within a couple percent, if you;ve got a prob, with the difference seen either w/what they say about the OP's deal, or your own, you might be better off taking it up w/them.

Not everybody can (or wants to) build a car based on NOTHING. Most prefer to use whatever tools that are available, in order to narrow things down some, to estimate HP to ET, vice versa. Same thing gets done longhand all the time in dyno rooms, bench racing sessions, and machine shops. A calculator is an estimation, and a useful tool. Never meant to be written in stone.
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:06 AM
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I took a look at the calculator oh the hot rod pit stop site and I cant tell if you are supposed to input engine hp or wheel hp. If it is wheel, and you assume a 20% loss to the rear wheels, it comes up with a low 13 at 400 wheel hp and 4700 lbs. I could not find the calculator on chevy mania.

I tested the hot rod pit stop calculator against a couple of cars I used to have and it seemed to estimate the ET a little low if you input motor hp, but right on with wheel hp.

I had a 1969 firebird that weighed 3200 lbs with a driver. The engine dynoed at 600 hp and the fastest it ran was a 10.88. The calculator estimates a 10.1 with 600 hp. If I use 480 wheel hp assuming a 20% loss to the wheels, I get a 10.88.

The other car I had was a 1972 ventura (nova) with a ~375 hp 355. I dont know the weight for sure but I would guess around 3500 with a driver. If I input 375 hp and 3500 lbs I get a 12.1. I know that car was not that fast. It ran right with a stock 2000 ss camaro. Those cars ran low 13's with slicks from the factory. I get 13.1 if I use 80% of 375 (300) wheel hp which is what I believe it ran.

Are you sure the moroso slide rule does not use wheel hp? I am not familiar with it.


As for getting the truck into the mid 11's, If you ran the AFR CNC chamber 305cc heads, a Victor Jr intake with a 1000 cfm holly hp carb, something like the XR286R solid roller cam (248 254 @.050 .653 .660 lift), and 10.5:1 compression along with a 150 shot of nitrous, you may get into the mid 11's. You would also need a full exhaust system, ~3500 stall, 4.10 gears, and suspension to hook it all up.

Adam

Last edited by firestone; 05-25-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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