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Old 05-29-2010, 05:35 PM
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454 new start up overheating?

Need suggestions..new 454 we are putting in our 58 Impala, we can not get a good break in trying to keep at 2000 rpm's and overheating within 5 minutes. We have already went through new cams and lifters once and are afraid we will be doing it again. Oil pressure is dropping now and temp is rising to 260 with in 5 minutes of start up. We have went through everything 10 times and need suggestions as to what to check or if we should just take this engine out and return to the builder!

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Old 05-29-2010, 05:38 PM
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overheat

Are you sure you don't have a bad air lock? Have you tried removing the thermostat and filling the engine with coolant then break your cam in?
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:52 PM
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no air lock, therm was removed, has coolant. Is leaking some oil out the bottom of the pan, but I do not think it is enough to cause loss of pressure? At this point I am thinking we will be pulling the engine and taking back to the builder and asking for the $5400.00 back! Have been trying to start up for breakin now for 2 weeks, replaced cam and lifters once due to bad distributor (could not start up first time correctly) now overheating and dropping oil pressure with oil leaks, just about to give up. Just can not think of what we are missing or if this is just a bad build to begin with?
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:16 PM
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Your timing is probably somewhat retarded. This will cause the overheating you are describing in a very short period. You probably are also seeing your exhaust pipes close to the headers glowing cherry red. This is another clue about the timing being retarded.

Dis-connect the vacuum advance hose from the vacuum cannister and plug it. Re-start the engine and bring the RPM's quickly up to around 2500-3000. Set the timing about 32-34 degrees BTDC. Re-connect the vacuum advance hose. Keep the RPM's up around 2000-2500 and vary until the break-in run is complete. Do NOT let the engine idle during this time.

Unfortunately, since you have already wiped one cam and have replaced it with another before you got the cam break-in run completed, you more than likely have wiped the rod and crank bearings from particles from the first cam contaminating the system. This can also be a cause of the dropping oil pressure.

Remove the oil filter and cut it open. Check for metallic particles in the filter. This will give you some indication of what has already occurred.

Your engine builder is NOT responsible for that. That's all on you.
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:49 PM
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the reason the first start up went bad was a new distributor.
supplied by the builder went bad. Put a new distributor in and
from then on it kept over heating. could only run the motor about
5 minutes or so.
The timing is set at 26 to 28 degrees at 2000 rpm

This is what I am running
March performance serpentine system with a Edelbrock reverse pump
aluminum 2 cord (1-1/4 tubes) radiator with a 2500 rpm electric fan and shroud
Pro Comp aluminum oval port heads

from the begin it has gotten hot

thanks for you help...
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffraff58
the reason the first start up went bad was a new distributor.
supplied by the builder went bad. Put a new distributor in and
from then on it kept over heating. could only run the motor about
5 minutes or so.
Since the bad distributor was supplied by the engine builder, he may have some responsibility.

A quick initial startup is very important to achieve a good cam break-in run.

You may be able to salvage the build if the system has been contaminated (very likely due to the cam and lifters being wiped out once). A COMPLETE tear down and thorough cleaning is required. The crank may need to be polished or worst case turned. New rod and crank bearings installed. New cam bearings installed. Tear down the oil pump and clean it or replace. Assuming the latest cam and lifters are not wiped out as well, be sure that the lifters are dis-assembled and cleaned and are installed in exactly the same lifter bores as they are now. Hopefully the pistons are OK.


Quote:
Originally Posted by riffraff58
The timing is set at 26 to 28 degrees at 2000 rpm
This is not enough advance and as I stated is probably the cause of the rapid overheating. Try setting the timing as I previously posted above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by riffraff58
This is what I am running
March performance serpentine system with a Edelbrock reverse pump
aluminum 2 cord (1-1/4 tubes) radiator with a 2500 rpm electric fan and shroud
Pro Comp aluminum oval port heads

from the begin it has gotten hot

thanks for you help...
You might also run a "box" type household fan in front of the radiator during the break-in run. This will increase the air flow thru the radiator. I assume you meant a 2500 cfm electric fan rather than listing the RPM.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:51 PM
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We have came to the conclusion it will need to be torn down and start over. This time we will have the break in done somewhere first. Thanks for your help, we knew we needed to keep the RPM's up just could not from the very start with the bad distributor, then when new cam and lifter put in we tried same but to no avail...damage already done from first start up?? who knows? Just frustrating to put that much money into it and have nothing.

Thanks again for your suggestions, anyone know a good place to take it to be dyno'ed first in western Washington?
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:58 AM
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I had a somewhat similar scenario during the cam break-in (first start up) for my 302 as described in this thread.

From that recent experience I would highly recommend at least pulling the pan and checking the rod and main bearings. If you have run any debris (like from you distributor gear) through the oiling system, it could cause the lost of pressure. And further start up attempts will only compound the problem.

I also had over heating problems during the start up. And as Frisco has suggested, I found that my distributor was WAY too retarded. As soon as I got it timed properly, the over heating problem immediately disappeared.
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