46 Ford sub frame questions - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2008, 09:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
46 Ford sub frame questions

Hi-
This will be my first post beyond the introducing myself. I am just getting started on my latest hot rod project, and my first Ford. I have built a couple of 1950 Chevs, but a local hot rod guy has always bought them from me before I was finished. With two kids in college, the money is hard to say no to; anyway he just bought my last one and I had a little money left over. Came across a super condition 46 2 door Sedan, really a nice piece, for a very fair price. Snapped it up. Here's the rub-

At some point in time, someone pulled the original front end, and replaced it with a drum brake, rear steer, Nova front stub. The install does not appear real sanitary, at least by the quality of the welds and the support bracket fabrication. I have no experience with sub frame swaps. I have a couple of sub frames, pretty complete, in my parts and stuff. One is a 78 Z-28, it's complete and has been rebuilt with all new bushings and ball joints, etc. The other is a mid 70's Monte Carlo, at least that's what I was told when I bought it for the 350/350 that was sitting in it. It's also a front steer disc unit.

My questions are these-

1. If I decide to just use the Nova stub that's in the car, what components will interchange from what I have to upgrade to disc brakes?
2. What kind of clearence issues am I looking at around the exhaust and rear steering?
3. I am concerned about the distance from the box to the firewall- it looks pretty tight, enough that I'm concerned about u-joints and shafts and the corresponding angles that will be invovled.
4 A man I know here in Denver area is a super fabricator, and has installed a number of sub frames in various hot rods. He would be willing to help me pull the Nova stub, which I cannot claim was installed correct in the first place, and replace it with one of the others. Is there any benefit to front steering over rear in this car? What about the radiator on a front steer? I'd think it would be a problem, but I'm not sure.

Any help in all of this would be really welcome. This car is in such nice shape it needs to be right.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008, 06:28 AM
BOBCRMAN@aol.com's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Holly, michigan
Posts: 8,134
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 25
Thanked 269 Times in 252 Posts
Sorry to hear of the bad install.

The early Nova/Camaro front is a very good unit. When installed correctly.

I personally would get the frame down to where measurements could be taken and possibly corrected.

Changing the sub to disc brakes is very easy. There have been several posts on that.

I have had several 41-48 Fords with this setup and I really like it. I have used early Camaro headers and "shorty" headers. The only problem being clearance where the sub/exhaust hits the "X" member. Some pipe bending is required. My 47 B/Coupe used a BBC with fenderwell headers. That was a real problem getting clearance at the "A" frames.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008, 01:25 PM
Deuce's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Choosing a trailer
Last journal entry: Jan 13 2013
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deuceland USA
Age: 66
Posts: 5,657
Wiki Edits: 6

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by qw1437
Any help in all of this would be really welcome. This car is in such nice shape it needs to be right.
Ford frames from 1941 to 1948 are all basically the same ... I suggest finding another 41 to 48 FORD frame. Build the new chassis to your specs ... and then move the body over. A bare chassis is so much easier to work on, and then paint and detail.





Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008, 05:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you both for your replys. I have to admit I had not considered locating another frame, but that makes a lot of sense. Just to confirm- it does not matter if it's a two door, four door, whatever- just a 41-48 passenger car frame? There was one on Craigs list here in Denver several months ago, some guy selling a 4 door body with a bare frame that had the MII crossmember in it. I think he wanted $900, but I don't think it sold.

At this point, my plan is to pull the front sheet metal and get the car up in the air so I can measure and really see what I have. I'd assume that you need to measure the wheelbase on both sides, and then find some way to check and see that the sub has the same side to side height, but what else do you measure? The bracing where the frame (s) connect is really the worst of it, and it is totally correctable with some grinding and additional material.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008, 05:55 PM
Deuce's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Choosing a trailer
Last journal entry: Jan 13 2013
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deuceland USA
Age: 66
Posts: 5,657
Wiki Edits: 6

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
The frames for a 41 to 48 Ford sedan, coupe and convertibles will interchange for a Hot Rodders purpose but the convertible frame is actually a better frame made of one gauge metal better material and usually have a little more bracing.

Measuring wheelbase is not a true indicator of what or where thing are. The mounting points of the suspension is where I would measure to.

The frame for $900 could be a great buy if the IFS was properly installed. Most Mustang II/Pinto kits are 4 to 5 hundred dollars. I, myself would rather find a original chassis that was not messed with and start fresh. I never had much luck with other folks " projects " and found out that a LOT of them were for sale because they were not HAPPY with the results either ... sort of like the sedan you just got
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008, 07:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I found a 46 Ford pickup on Craigs list here in Denver for $1000, that's for the whole truck with a flathead V-8. I assume that a truck frame is a different animal? The other frame is not to be found. I would also much prefer a stock frame, but I think trying to find one might be a bit of a chore- I'll start keeping my eyes open. For now, I will stick with the only plan I see as practical, that's seeing what I have to work with and making a call from there.

This Nova stub that's on the car- drum/rear steer- how does it compare width wise to a stock Ford? I keep reading about kits to make the disc setups narrower. I did not really notice that it seemed too wide, but I sure could have missed that easy enough.

I was wondering about a Fatman MII front subframe, but they don't list one for this particular car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008, 09:22 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tulsa ,Ok
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Been There

///As said before measure a lot, if square ,check the wheelbase and tire spacing, when installing a subframe that lowers the ride -add 2 inches to the Wheelbase so tires end up in center of fender well. The nova sub is the best to use because camaro has frt steer and box gets in the way of the grill and radiator on the 30's and 40's trucks and cars. Some subframes have to be narrowed or offset rims used. The monti frame might work, I have never installed one of these. Do not worry about the angle of steering, that is why street rods use joints and tilt columns. Hope this all helps Ace PS always fishplate both sides and bottom of any frame splice !!! with 1/4 in plate welded.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2008, 04:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Many thanks for all the good council here. I have yet to move the car home, but I did take some "this is where I found it" pictures. I will see about trying to get some of those loaded so you can see why I was so hot on buying this outfit anyway. It may be all ok anyway, and just need cleaning up and a disc brake swap. I will know when I get her home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2008, 05:43 AM
Bluejackets67's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Age: 47
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by qw1437
I found a 46 Ford pickup on Craigs list here in Denver for $1000, that's for the whole truck with a flathead V-8. I assume that a truck frame is a different animal?
The 42-47 and 48-52 Ford truck frames are completely different. Stick with a 41-48 Ford passenger car frame.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2008, 09:09 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just for my information, what is the factory track width on the original 46 Ford front end?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2008, 02:23 PM
S10xGN's Avatar
Gotta love a turbo!
 

Last journal entry: Body on Frame today.
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Port Neches, TX
Age: 61
Posts: 1,666
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 62 Times in 58 Posts
I just bought a new project and *may* be selling my '47 Ford project, complete or piecemeal. Check out my journal and PM me if interested. I'm about out of room!

Russ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
lets talk-

Russ- you have PM- lets talk-
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
36 Ford Pickup on a Ford Ranger Frame? Fasteddy General Rodding Tech 21 12-08-2012 11:25 AM
T-bucket frame questions Nightfire Hotrodding Basics 22 01-23-2008 09:21 PM
'98-'08 Ford Ranger Frame w/ '37 Ford Body? jbundick Hotrodders' Lounge 8 12-28-2007 05:31 PM
29 Ford...Box the frame? RodGuyinCO Hotrodding Basics 5 12-14-2006 07:38 AM
46 Ford lcargill Introduce Yourself 3 12-28-2005 06:16 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.