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Old 10-18-2012, 08:01 PM
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460 waterpump belt?

My 460 hasnt got a waterpump belt but im not sure what to do, is there ment to be a tensioner to tighten it . . .? here is a photo could someone please tell me what part im missing so i can try find it to buy i have no idea what its called or anything i havnt gone and brought a belt yet because want to know what im missing to put it on.


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Old 10-18-2012, 08:53 PM
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460 ?

Ford did a lot of crazy things with belts. the water pump - fan were probabley used with the Ac compressor,or/and power steering Usually the smog pump was ran by a small seperate belt. decide what accessories you need . you are going to run AC ? Power steering? . I don't think I have ever seen a 460 that did not have power steering, I don't know if later years used a serpentine belt, It seems like I saw one with a serp and v belt, Maybe not a 460,
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
Ford did a lot of crazy things with belts. the water pump - fan were probabley used with the Ac compressor,or/and power steering Usually the smog pump was ran by a small seperate belt. decide what accessories you need . you are going to run AC ? Power steering? . I don't think I have ever seen a 460 that did not have power steering, I don't know if later years used a serpentine belt, It seems like I saw one with a serp and v belt, Maybe not a 460,
just had a look at my mates thunderbird with a 460 and nah i havent got power steering or a/c on his one he just has a double pulley on his alternator which 1 belt runs all 3 at the same time.

so i just need to find out where to buy a double pulley for my alternator and i can get a 1 belt which will run the waterpump too
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:57 PM
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460 waterpump belt

The way it looks in the picture replace the belt you have with a longer belt to go around the crank pulley, water pump, and altenator. You don't need a double pulley on the alternator.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
The way it looks in the picture replace the belt you have with a longer belt to go around the crank pulley, water pump, and altenator. You don't need a double pulley on the alternator.

the alternator belt is in towards the firewall about 50mm from the other pulleys so the belt wont be straight thats why i need a double pulley for the alternater so it brings the pulley towards the front of the car that extra bit so the belt can go around all 3

but thats the plan i hope
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:16 PM
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OK ... this is based on looking up parts by the "WAG" (Wild *** Guess) method.

I thought I could read "D8UE-AA" stamped into the water pump, and used 1978 E250 van with a 460 engine as a basis for the belt configuration.
Your alternator *looks* like the standard "small frame" (40,60A) and not the "large frame" (70,90A).

So, with all of that in mind...
They DO list a seperate belt for the alternator, and the fan & P/S run together.

There IS a listing for "Fan - w/o Power Steering" NAPA 25-9451, which is 12mm (0.47") x 1153mm (45.38")

Looking at your configuration, and knowing that the grooves on the alt pulley do not line up ... you're in trouble. You MUST have something with an adjustable mount so that you can tighten the belt, right?

I'd suggest that it might be time for a trip to the boneyard, to buy a complete set of pulleys (possibly brackets, too) all for the same application. The challenge might be to find a vehicle without P/S or AC ... that uses the same water pump hub length.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Ford!

PS.
I do know that Ford used to list an idler pulley and bracket for some "non-AC" applications. (Motorcraft YS-102, YS-103 ... IIRC)
Those numbers don't cross, but I did find an

NTC (Everco) # A8647
which was listed to fit (among other things) 70-73 Mustang & Torino with a 429 engine. This *might* give you the adjustable pivot point that you need?
No guarantees ... but a possibility?

OK ... here's some more info that holds some promise.
The stamp# on that water pump crosses to NAPA (Cardone) #58-216.
The buyer's guide tells me that the same pump also fits that 70-73 Torino with a 429!

Good Luck, and HTH!
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:17 PM
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If this was a chevy i would say just grab a rear set water pump pulley and get a double pulley for the alternater and run two belts on both.

not sure if they have those commonly found for ford style water pumps. Chevy uses a short and long water pump.

Or electric water pump. Depends on the cars purpose in life.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:08 PM
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I went through this a couple of years ago with my 460. Seems Ford used quite a few different variants of pulleys. The guys at Ford Racing even worked with me on trying to put a pulley set together. I ended up buying a set of March aluminum pulleys. If I'd done that to start with I'd have saved a lot of money.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:45 PM
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I think I found the answer at "http://www.429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/engine_pulleys.htm"

Quote:
Without an adjuster of some type at the PS position, there would be no way to tension the belt between the WP and Crank Pulley. The Non Power Steering Idler, like the PS bracket, is also adjustable (as shown in this photo ) and is used to set belt tension. The pulley assembly part number is stamped number DOAE-8A617-B2 (service numbers D0AZ-8679-A or Motorcraft # YS-32) and the bracket stamped part number is DOAE-8A620-A (service numbers D0AZ-8680-A or Motorcraft # YS-43).





The pulleys that you need have the stamping numbers shown in the routing diagram.

The single-groove w/p pulley # D0SE-(8509)-AA (D Zero S E) which sure sounds like standard 429 (With 1970 T-Bird being the original application)

The 2-groove Crank pulley D0OE - (6312) - F Also sounds like a typical 429 (with a 1970 Torino being the original application)

I believe that these pullies could be found on many of th early 70's 429's (and quite possibly 351C's as well) without AC.

That PS setup illustrated on that website looks identical to what I ran on on my 351C. "D0OE" was very typical of the prefix used on lots of 351C stuff, IIRC.

So I'd suggest perusing the boneyard looking at old Torinos, Montegos etc without AC that are less likely to be picked over than the T-Birds, Mustangs. and Cougars.

IF these setups are the same on 351M/400 engines (and I think they might be) then look at full-size ford cars and trucks prior to 1978 also without AC ... as that is when they switched to the newer C3 (small plastic) power steering pump with the larger plastic reservoir cap.

PS:
That bracket and pulley that I included in my previous post was an idler pulley and bracket used for vehicles without AC ... and not what I think you need.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hp246 View Post
I went through this a couple of years ago with my 460. Seems Ford used quite a few different variants of pulleys. The guys at Ford Racing even worked with me on trying to put a pulley set together. I ended up buying a set of March aluminum pulleys. If I'd done that to start with I'd have saved a lot of money.
i was thinking about just buying a gilmore pulley set that has 3 pulleys and 1 belt to run alternator and waterpump and crank pulley.



such a bad day for me =[ first paranoid about my transmission because not sure if it was in park or drive i think it was in drive and has no fluid in it and iv started it and the guy i got it from has had the engine running, and if the gearbox had no fluid its probably ****d now? and then i took my carby off to tightening some bolts as it was leaking a tiny bit and i cleaned up my points now the bucket of crap wont run it sprays petrol out the exhausts and runs on like 3 cylinders =[ i duno if its the ignition not sparking or carby pumping way to much fuel even though i touched nothing =[
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