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Old 02-13-2013, 12:34 PM
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4l65e rebuild

Hi everyone,

I recently pulled my 4l65e transmission from a 2006 Escalade to rebuild because I lost reverse. I scowered over many sites and threads on the web searching for help and guidance from posts as I had never done this before. Found some real good info on this site and it was instrumental in guiding my rebuild. This is not a hotrod but a everyday driver so I was not trying to beef it up to be high HP capable but I did want a improved build. I replaced all the clutch packs with upgraded frictions /steels and used a wide band with a new reverse input housing and upgraded the sun shell to the beast and replaced my pump with a used unit that i went through to make sure it had everything that was needed and was in proper working condition. These things along with all the seals and some replaced bonded seal pistons and accumulator pistons and seals and orings .

I just got the think back in operation and I have some issues.After the fluid fill I took it for it maiden excursion around the bloc and then back to check the fluid level and everything was working like a dream. Since the fluid was fine I took it out again to just drive it easy a bit to make sure all was well. In short order I found that the transmission became reluctant to downshift back to 1st gear when comming to a stop. it appeared stuck in second at that point with no upshifr to 3rd. Now I can manually shift through all the gears fine but the transmission will not shift on it own in D. It initally runs great until it warms up it seems and then is when it starts acting this way.

I have had a couple people tell me to check the 2-4 servo travel to make sure that the band is not too tight. Being a novice I did not do this when I had the tranny out of the truck. But Im just learning here. Anywho .... I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this as a solution or any other things that may be more appropriate to check. I hope I can get the servo out while it is still in the truck. It does seem cramped in its location.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jim

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Old 02-14-2013, 03:21 PM
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I measured the travel on the 2-4 servo and found it to be shorter than spec and therefore I ground off enough to get it at least into the spec range of 75-125 thousandths. I think I am in the middle of the range now. I did a test drive at this setting and found that the only thing I had accomplished was to prolong the length of time that it took to begin displaying the symptoms again. Which are refusing to downshift back to 1st gear when you stop. It goes to 2nd and will start in 2nd and will not upshift. I can manually ghet first and 2nd but no 3rd. Reverse works. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:30 AM
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Anyone got any ideas on this? Im going to look at the servo pin again and see if I got enough off and maybe take a bit mor but I am at a loss for what to do next.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:39 PM
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I would scan the system with a proper scanner for live data feed. See if the trans is commanded to shift correctly or not.

the same scanner should be able to manually command the transmission to verify commands are traveling through the chassis wire harness
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:10 AM
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Hi Crosley. Thanks for your input. I talked to a tranny shop yesterday and found one to do a scan. I do not know i fthey have the capability to do the type of scan you speak of though. Is this a tool capability that they all have?

I test drove the truck again yesterday and discovered something new about this issue. I had driven the truck for about 5 minutes or so when the truck started doint the same thain again. Not downshifting or upshifting and just stuck in second. I stoped to find something that was rolling around in the back and making a racket. I turned the truck off and about a nimute or less later cranked it back up and the truck was running properly again. No longer stuck in second. Could the computer have reset itself or something? That still does not tell me why it starts sticking in second gear in the first place though.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishcrazy View Post
Hi Crosley. Thanks for your input. I talked to a tranny shop yesterday and found one to do a scan. I do not know i fthey have the capability to do the type of scan you speak of though. Is this a tool capability that they all have?

I test drove the truck again yesterday and discovered something new about this issue. I had driven the truck for about 5 minutes or so when the truck started doint the same thain again. Not downshifting or upshifting and just stuck in second. I stoped to find something that was rolling around in the back and making a racket. I turned the truck off and about a nimute or less later cranked it back up and the truck was running properly again. No longer stuck in second. Could the computer have reset itself or something? That still does not tell me why it starts sticking in second gear in the first place though.

Shut down and a restart can reset a mild failure.

Scanners are not created equal. You need a proper scanner for live data stream from the vehicle to see what the PCM is telling the transmission to do. A 'code reader' is not useful for what you need to do.

You may simply have a problem with ground wires. Dirty grounds, corroded, loose. You may have a problem with the connector at the transmission. Dirty, bent pins, corroded.

You may have faulty solenoids. Were all electronics replaced during the repair?

Since you are a novice and did this repair using internet knowledge, anything may have been done incorrectly from a simple thing to complicated.

If you can determine the vehicle system is telling the trans the proper signals, you can narrow down the failure to a mechanical one inside the transmission. The electronics and mechanical parts of the trans must each be looked at to narrow down the cause
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply. The rebuild used a kit of the following:

Raybestos Blue Plate frictions in forward and overrun
Raybestos GPZ105 frictions in 3-4 clutch
High static OEM frictions
The Raybestos Pro Series wide band
Complete steel kit with turbulator reverse steels and kolene 3-4 steels
Complete gasket and seal kit
ACDelco 3-4 Apply and Backing plates for proper 3-4 clearance
Sonnax replacement load release springs
ACDelco 3rd accumulator check valve

I also put in a new reverse input drum and a used pump which I needed due to the stator shaft being unusable in the old pump and the bearings being badly damaged in the reverse drum. I also replaced the sun dome with the beast. The 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons were replaced. A new OEM bonded separator plate was used. I replaced the 3-4 clutch piston and foward clutch housing and piston with new bonded rubber pistons. I did pull the pump apart and replaced the soft parts and filter but deemed the rest ok and reused.

I did not totally rebuild the VB but did replace the Orings on some that I had to remove. The forward accumulator seal was replaced. The 3-2-control solenoid and TC clutch solenoid Orings were replaced.

The reason that I rebuilt the transmission was that I lost reverse. All the forward gears were working properly when I tore it down and that is why I thought the electronics were good and I found mechanical cause for the lost reverse.

This transmission runs perfect for 5 minits or so. Then it decides it likes 2nd gear and only wants to be in that gear . I can still get 1st and reverse also.

I have beat my head against the wall trying to figure out what mechanically could cause this type of behavior to just start happening after the thing runs perfect for 5 or more minutes. I thought since the band had gone to a wide onethat the pin may be too tight and I did adjust the travel of that to be within specification. Only other thing I can think of isreplace the shift solenoids but they must be working properly for some period of time till it starts loving second and you wouldnt think that they would reset if defective.

I am going to have someone do the proper scan to check the computer is telling the transmission to do what it should be telling it to do. I just cant imagine it running perfectly and suddenly having just 2nd , no down or upshift.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:04 AM
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I took the truck to a tranny shop and he put it on some kind of scanner and said I had a code for the defective manifold pressure switch which he said was in the transmission and could cause my symptoms. Im thinking this is the pressure switch assembly that bolts to the valve body tells the computer what gear it is in. do know that when I was replacing the o'rings on the face of the switch I inadvertantly removed the plastic film with one of the o'rings and just put it back on with the new o'ring. Could this be my problem?
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishcrazy View Post
I took the truck to a tranny shop and he put it on some kind of scanner and said I had a code for the defective manifold pressure switch which he said was in the transmission and could cause my symptoms. Im thinking this is the pressure switch assembly that bolts to the valve body tells the computer what gear it is in. do know that when I was replacing the o'rings on the face of the switch I inadvertantly removed the plastic film with one of the o'rings and just put it back on with the new o'ring. Could this be my problem?

If the PCM receives poor or no signal from the pressure manifold, that can set off the PCM into a default mode
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:39 AM
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I am planning to replace the manifold pressure swithc today and am hoping that this solves all my shifting issues. I have noticed some change in the shifting ( I THINK) since I ground off the tip of the servo pin some. I think that it is within spec but right at the longer length of travel spec. The shift seems to be happening with a slight amount of slip and a somewhat harder engagement than I previously had. If I continue to get this type of shift after replacing the pressure switch I am considering resizing the pen length with a extender that I put on the end of the existing pin or by replacing the pin with a new one. Is one preferred over the other? I read some post on here that said they had seen more than one of these extenders come off.

A concern is what effect does the pin being right at the higher end of the travel specification or maybe just higher than that have on shift and can it cause premature band failure? Also will a corvet servo be a good upgrade to the longevity of the transmission and just how much harder will the corvet servo shift be? Any advice from more experienced builders would be appreciated here.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:30 AM
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Talking on a standard rebuild,I personally have never ground on a servo pin.As long as the band had some wiggle on the drum before installing the pump,which it allways did,I shipped it. If it lasted 100k before the rebuild with the pin at that length,it'll go another 100k after a rebuild.Then again,I might add,all my kits come from an OEM supplier. As far as a corvette servo,all transmissions act differently with that servo installed,some shift nicer,some too firm for its application.And remember,this is a heavy escalade your talking about.You don't want that thing shifting like a hot rod,or you'll be replacing broken bands on a regular basis....just my opinion.

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Old 02-21-2013, 09:45 AM
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I appreciate the input. I started with the pin grinding thinking that the band was too tight causing my problem that were actually coming from the pressure switch. So I guess I am thinking maybe I should think about correcting the pin grinding I should not have been doing. The pin travel was very close to the lower end of the specification length if not just under and I thought that maybe the wide band upgrade and the new reverse drum maybe caused the pin to be on the tight side. But now I am a bit concerned that it is on the loose side. I anxious to see how it shifts with the new switch installed.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:40 AM
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After installing the new pressure plate the transmission seems to shift normal EXCEPT for the one time it flared from the 2-3 shift. Only did it one time but it has done that before on a couple occasions. If I am not mistaken it was after I ground off the pin. At any rate it seems to be shifting ok now except for the one time issue mentioned. I will test driv eit again today to see if it remains good. It has not reset the CEL which is on. Do I need to disconnect the battery to reset that or do I have to have the codes reas to reset it or will the vehicle reset it eventually since the problem was fixed?
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishcrazy View Post
After installing the new pressure plate the transmission seems to shift normal EXCEPT for the one time it flared from the 2-3 shift. Only did it one time but it has done that before on a couple occasions. If I am not mistaken it was after I ground off the pin. At any rate it seems to be shifting ok now except for the one time issue mentioned. I will test driv eit again today to see if it remains good. It has not reset the CEL which is on. Do I need to disconnect the battery to reset that or do I have to have the codes reas to reset it or will the vehicle reset it eventually since the problem was fixed?
The DTC need to be properly cleared. disconnect the ground at battery for a while
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:41 AM
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I tried disconnecting the battery leads for a while yesterday but the CEL stayed on. I left them disconnected overnight and will see if that worked. It did not seem to turn on when I started test driving the truck until I had been through several drive cycles.
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