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Old 11-16-2005, 11:06 AM
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4x4 shudder

what causes a 4x4 to shudder? it only seems to do it on pavement, and i acually think it slows the truck down also. I'm willing to bet the front tires are larger. all 4 tires are bf goodrich 31" the rear being those popular all terrain ones. and the front are and older style I belive. could the front ones be bigger even tho they are supposeto be the same size?
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Old 11-16-2005, 11:08 AM
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When does it shudder?
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Old 11-16-2005, 03:26 PM
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in 4x4, on pavement, where its not slippery

the front ones are called "trail t/a" that I dont think they make anymore and the rears are those popular "all terrain ta"
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/image...rain_large.jpg

Last edited by jackflash; 11-16-2005 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:07 PM
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How fast are you going when this happens?

Turning or not?

Is this a new vehicle for you or did you own it last year?

what year and make is the vehicle?

Is this an offroad vehicle or daily driver?

Gears in the diff are the same ratio?
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:52 PM
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Unless your truck is all wheel drive,as opposed to four wheel drive,you aren't supposed to use it in 4 wheel drive on dry pavement.The differences in wheel speed caused by steering,tire diameter and minor gearing differences in the axles cause the driveline to bind.When the bind is great enough,one or more tires will slip,causing the shudder.By operating the truck in fwd on dry pavement,you are causing excessive wear on the driveline and tires,and can potentialy cause breakage of driveline components.
Four wheel drive is meant to increase a vehicles ability to traverse slippery surfaces such as mud,sand and snow.These surfaces allow the tires to slip and relieve the driveline bind.

George
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:42 PM
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My shudder was a little different but here it goes anyways. I had a 2000 powerstroke club cab 4X4 that would shudder just after take off. I shimmed down the center carrier bearing on the rear driveshaft 3/4" and that took care of it.
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Old 11-16-2005, 07:18 PM
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Fast Orange is exactly right.....There is no differential action between the front and rear axle.....this is why you are not supposed to be in 4X4 on hard dry surfaces. Besides causing extra wear and tear on your vehicle it is dangerous , especially at higher speeds you could easily lose control.
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Old 11-16-2005, 09:10 PM
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4WD Binding

Yes, all 4 wheel drive vehicles will bind up some when driven in 4WD on pavement and it is hard on them. You are probably binding up even more with the different tires on the front and back (the truck will actually act like a different ratio between the front and back differentials). I know they may be the same size but there could still be a lot of difference in the diameters. That is why all 4 tires should be the same size, brand, and amount of wear to work the best. I have even ran into matching tires that are not exactly the same diameter, usually on the cheaper brands.

Rick
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:09 PM
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this is a 85 s-10 "durango" with the lever style 4x4 and planetary low range. no push button. I drove this truck in the winter last year, with differenttires on it, all the same make and size it made a little noise, but nothing like the shuddering I'm feeling with this. i know that I'm not supposed to drive on pavement in 4x4 but where i live in town the roads arent cleared as well as they should be. cant move uphill on slick ice, but... well you get the picture. the gears are the same. its 3.73 front and rear. anyways I guess i'll just get new tires. anyways. what i really was asking, about the tires. is it possible that 2 different makes of tires be diffrent sizes, even tho they are marked to be the same size tire?
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:43 PM
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In short,yes.Actual diameters of tires of the same stated size do vary considerably between manufacturers,and even between tires of different "models" made by the same manufacturer. Air pressure and load also cause variances in effective circumference of tires of the exact same make and style.
For this reason,you should not operate a FWD vehicle in FWD mode on surfaces that don't allow slippage of the tires to relieve torque bind.

George
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Old 11-17-2005, 09:52 PM
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4WD Binding

A quick way to check and see if all 4 tires are the same diameter is this:

1. Get the truck on a level surface with the wheels straight and enough room to drive straight ahead without turning the tires, preferably on a flat parking lot or large shop. Make sure the tire pressure is equal in all tires.

2. Put a mark on each tire at the 6 o'clock position or straight down.

3. Drive the vehicle straight ahead far enough to rotate the tires several revolutions, stopping with one of the wheel's mark again straight down at the 6 o'clock position.

4. If all of the tires are the same diameter, all of the marks should be at 6 o'clock. Depending on the position of the marks, you can tell which tires are smaller or larger in diameter.

You would be surprised at how many sets of "matched" tires are off!

Rick
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:12 AM
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Being a pretend 4x4 and a pretend hotrod mechanic, I can get the best of both worlds. The tires would make it shudder, if they are out of balance. This would not cause a shudder if the tires were not the same size, provided the pairs are front and rear. You would really be surprised about how a truck can manage even with tire size differences. One of my friends wheeled his truck with a set of 4.11's out back and a set of 3.73's up front for a little while and nothing blew up. Not a good idea, but its not that bad. If it is a solid axle, then try this, this fixed both my friends Toyota and a Heep. Have a friend sit in the truck, and you lay on the ground in front of the steering, and have him cut the wheel a quarter turn either way really fast. It may be easier to do with the truck off, so you can't cut too far. Just have him shake the wheel, and look for slop in the steering components. We origionally thought that the tires were the culprit, but it turned out that the drag link was shot, and this produced the shudder in the steering. If there isnt any obvious slop, then the tires could be the culprit.

Sam
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicksixseven
Being a pretend 4x4 and a pretend hotrod mechanic, I can get the best of both worlds. The tires would make it shudder, if they are out of balance. This would not cause a shudder if the tires were not the same size, provided the pairs are front and rear. You would really be surprised about how a truck can manage even with tire size differences.
We origionally thought that the tires were the culprit, but it turned out that the drag link was shot, and this produced the shudder in the steering. If there isnt any obvious slop, then the tires could be the culprit.

Sam
Theres a big noticable difference between a drivetrain shudder and a steering shudder!
With your drag link experience, the most obvious sign would have been the shimmey felt in the steering wheel.

As far as tire size differences,
When locked in 4x4 (on dry pavement), with matching gear ratios front and back. If you take two different tires sizes in respect to front and back it will act like two different gear ratios, thus resulting in a shudder.
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