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Old 06-22-2011, 06:06 PM
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50 merc power deck lid/relay

My merc has the two seat screws to lift the lid, they go up good but tend to falter when the battery is low, I was told a relay installed in the proper cicuit would probably cure this . If you know and can tell me in simple language where and how this relay is entered into the finished wiring scheme, i mean the power is back to the screws [van rear seat] dodge earlier models.
If i can install a relay that will give more oommpff to the lid.In other words make the lid go all the way open without the hesitation all the time . there i got that out, i think. thank you for any donations of ideas on this delema
bob s

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Old 06-22-2011, 06:50 PM
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Take the existing power wire to the screws and hook them to the coil side of a 30 amp relay, hook the other side of the coil to a ground. Run a 8 gage wire from the battery to the common post of the relay, hook the wires from the screws to the Normaly Open post of the relay. That way when power from your existing switch operates the relay, it will switch power directly from the battery to the screws.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:01 PM
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Here is a simple dia
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File Type: pdf Screws relay.pdf (89.1 KB, 77 views)
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:26 AM
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If it is power up and power down, you'll need more than one relay. You will need another relay for the opposite direction.

See at the bottom of the third post down. That will do it.

Find out how many AMPS they pull and wire the supply side accordingly. The control side of the relays can be operated with 16Ga wire easily.
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:53 AM
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You're right, slipped by me on the down part, here's a corrected dia.

It uses a neg feed, or ground from the switch, NOT 12V. I like to use it this way so if the switch goes south, all I have to do is ground one side or the other and it will still work.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:32 AM
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So other than another relay /....all i am using is one relay for the uphill direction --or--2 relays for the upwards travel, and none for the downward travel, --or ---i wire as per your first diagram? one relay?
and BTW this is greatly appreciated.i've wired my own builds for40 years, but once you stop wiring it tends to leave the mind, age is to blame.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:23 AM
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If they are faltering when the battery is low a relay is not going to help. Relays help with old undersized wiring. I would first be sure that the wiring to the devices is of proper size.
You say it happens when the battery is low. As available voltage goes down, required current goes up to operate any device. If the wire is not sized properly to handle the required current the device will not receive enough power to operate.

make sure the wire you are running is of the proper size and the control switches are able to handle the current.

Installing relays to handle this may not be needed if the wire is sized properly.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:23 AM
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Again, if your "screws", linear actuators, power up and down, you will need 2 relays, one for each direction. See the attachment.

Yes it can be done with a DPDT switch, but, the contacts of the switch are usually not as robust as the relays. A lot of large wires carrying a lot of amps, with a lot of connections.

A relay or in this case two relays will have two large wires each and the rest of the wires are smaller gauge and carry low current.

Check out the attachment again. IT may look hard but it's really pretty basic.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-bucket23
If they are faltering when the battery is low a relay is not going to help. Relays help with old undersized wiring. I would first be sure that the wiring to the devices is of proper size.
You say it happens when the battery is low. As available voltage goes down, required current goes up to operate any device. If the wire is not sized properly to handle the required current the device will not receive enough power to operate.

make sure the wire you are running is of the proper size and the control switches are able to handle the current.

Installing relays to handle this may not be needed if the wire is sized properly.
Tbucket is correct, the wires need to be capable of handling the load of the actuators regardless if you use relays or not.

But, the use of relays allows you to use the existing small wiring as your control wiring and run a dedicated circuit of large wire for the power to the relays and then to the actuator.

Take a look at the diagram again. I have added typical wire sizes so you can see what I'm talking about. If you used a DPDT switch, all wires would have to be of the larger size. Depending on your actuators amp draw, you may be able to get by with 12 Ga wire as your big wires. I used 10Ga because that is what I usually use for something like that.

Good Luck.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:23 AM
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Yes the wires run back to the trunk from a SWITCH NEXT TO THE STEERING COLUMN.They are #12 accordingly [both], It has never caused any situations with heat or not working .The decklid just needs a little help once in awhile. This i might add;When the merc is running, everything goes up and down great.\Its just when its off that i see the difference in travel. And Thank you again for hanging with me on this . bob s
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:36 PM
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bsa bob, it's not unusual for electrical devices to run more slowly with the engine off.

If you have ever had power windows, you have probably noticed they run faster with the engine running as apposed to the engine off.

It's the difference in about 12 volts with the engine off and about 14 volts engine running.

The only thing the relays will bring to this situation or any for that matter. They ensure, if deployed correctly, that all available voltage will be available to the device, engine running or not.

Put a voltmeter on the terminals of the actuators and read the voltage while going in the up direction with the engine running, then with it off. Then wait 30 minutes and read it again with engine off. Always using the up direction for these tests.

It boils down to this, if you want them to run faster supply them with more voltage.

If they are very old, they may benefit from a good cleaning and re-lube.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:17 PM
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While my dia isn't as pretty as the other, it might be easier to follow.

Basicly a grd and a fused hot wire to each relay, a short jumper from the hot wire to the coil side of the relay, the other side of the coil is controlled by the switch to connect a ground....

Both relays in the normally closed state (no pwr) ground both sides of the motor

Let's say we push the up button on the switch, it connects to a ground, thus allowing the coil to energize and closes the contacts on the up relay, sending 12v to one side of the motor.

The other side of the motor is connected to grd via the other relay etc.....
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:38 AM
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You may just need a larger battery. People tend to go to small in street rods because space is hard to come by. What battery are you running?
It would be interesting to see what the voltage drops down to when you are operating the lid. A bigger battery will also be kinder to your alternator
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:25 AM
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Well!! Now i have a stack of ideas...man i'm glad i have a printer, and you guys This will keep me busy for awhile. but as arnold said "I'll be back"!!As always i'm very grateful for all you help sincerely bob s alias bsa_bob
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:51 PM
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which post on a relay?? open and common

The posts as on my relays which one is the common post.and which one is the open post please! Im still trying to get relays to work on my deck lid. any help helpful bob s --------------pm here or scharpr@ymail.com
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