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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2012, 07:12 PM
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502 SS Impala Overheating Issues

I put 180 degree stat in it yesterday and it actually ran hotter and when I would rev the engine to 3000 rpm it did cool down but not as quick as it did with just having the disc in there with the 1 inch hole. I think that the next thing I am going to do just for a test is to take out everything and just let it flow straight through. The reason I want to do this is because when I had the thermostat housing off of the engine I noticed that whoever built this housing had to flatten out the 1.500 dia tube to get it to fit into the side of the thermostat housing and the size of the hole is restricting the flow as well. The reason it is restricting the flow is because when they welded the tube to the housing it appears that some of the weld came inside of the tube because of the thin wall of the tubing.

As I think I said before in this thread that I do not know how to set the timing on this computerized engine but I wanted to put a light on it at an idle. I put the timing light on it at Idle and it shows 38 degrees (the engine idles at about900 rpm) and when I would rev it to 3500 rpm it would go to 43 degrees.

Do these numbers tell anyone anything that might have to do with the overheating at the lower rpm's?

I need to figure out how to set the base timing so I can see where it is set.

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Old 08-29-2012, 07:15 PM
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Hey so tell me PLEASE what was the results ?? PLEASE don't let this thread die like so many others without a final resolution. I have pretty close to the same overheating issue as you do. I have spent over $1,000, and thus far without any real positive results. 210 degrees all the time once I drive it. Have bought Griffin 4 core alum rad, a few different rated rad. caps, alum. reserve tank, various degree T stats, Tarus fan with custom shroud {works best} after 2-3 aftmkt. hi dollar fans, Weind Hi flo alum water pump {2}, {correct rotation varified 3-4 times} March Serp. system, even added a idler pulley to make sure there was no slop in the belt, of course all new hoses, base timing @ 20, total @ 30, absolutely no vac leaks, no lean issues, other than over heating {210} the car runs perfect. Once my car hits 210 it stays there regaurdless of MPH, or if I pull over and sit with the fan running. One thing I have noticed is the air being drawn threw the rad. once it is @ 210 is cool air ? And there is PLENTY of air being pulled threw. But then if it is sitting and idleing it will NOT go above 200 then the fan is running the air being drawn threw is warm/hot ? When it is at 210 the upper and lower hoses are hot, the tanks on the rad. are hot, but the air being drawn threw is cool like there is no heat/coolant in the tubes/fins of the rad. BUT THERE IS ! NOT air bound either. At idle it will go to 200 the fan comes ON, then cools down to 185 and goes off, during the time the fan is running the air is warm ! It will cycle without going over 200 like that for as long as it is sitting. Drive it, then it goes to 210 and will NOT go below 210 no matter what you do. Once in a while I have seen it go as high as 220. I have checked and replaced absolutely everything out of frustration I can think of. 3 water pumps, 3 radiators, 3 T stats, middle sized restrictor plate, 3-4 electric fans & shrouds, 50/50 coolant, new hoses, had the rear of the intake drilled and thread so the rear intake coolant passages are now connected. I am at a loss ? I have called 2-3 of these major radiator guys and I can't make any sense of what they are saying because they don't seem to understand I have tried everything their suggestions atleast 2-3 times already....LOL After all I have done my car {83 Camaro} has the 4 core alum rad, mid sized restrictor plate, 50/50 coolant, Wiend alum water pump, March pulley system, serp belt, 18 lb. cap and this is the best combination I have found and it still isn't right. Theres no reason why this car shouldn't run in 80-90 degree weather at 180-190 on a regular basis. I just don't know whatelse to try. And I am real tired of spending all my money and time trying to get it to run at a reasonable temp so it sits more than I drive it. Wanna talk about frustrations ?....LOL
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:26 PM
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I notice everyone says to change the thermostat out, but that will make 0 difference if you don't have have the electric fans set to come on at the right temperatures. You need to find someone who tunes, preferably with HP Tuners, and have them reset the electric fans come on at lower temperatures. For example, I put a 10 degree cooler stat in my 03 Cobra but the recommended tuning change required the electric fans to kick in 20 degrees cooler than stock. If they're still set at stock temps that explains your overheating problems. I would expect the two stock fans to be adequate when set to work at a lower temp.

Something else you should do is box in the radiator, it's what guys who do high performance driving events and auto cross do when they run stock cooling systems under heavy demands. Not the same car but it will give the right idea. School me on boxing in a radiator... - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:07 PM
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502 SS Impala Overheating Issues

I see one thing wrong in the pictures. You need to make a fan shroud that will cover both fans. Something like these fans. Be Cool 75638 - Be Cool Qualifier Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com Another thing to do is measure the diameter of the crank pulley and the water pump pulley and post here. Your crank pulley should be 5.750" or 5 3/4". Water pump pulley should be 5.250" or 5 1/4"
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
I see one thing wrong in the pictures. You need to make a fan shroud that will cover both fans. Something like these fans. Be Cool 75638 - Be Cool Qualifier Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com Another thing to do is measure the diameter of the crank pulley and the water pump pulley and post here. Your crank pulley should be 5.750" or 5 3/4". Water pump pulley should be 5.250" or 5 1/4"
He posted it in #14 "I measured the crank pulley at a 7.750 diameter and the water pump pulley is about 5.625 diameter which matches the Z06 corvette a friend of mine has. I don;t know if this difference is diameters is correct for this motor but maybe I need a pump pulley diameter change."
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by edspring1 View Post
Tarus fan with custom shroud {works best} , March pulley system, serp belt, I just don't know whatelse to try. And I am real tired of spending all my money and time trying to get it to run at a reasonable temp so it sits more than I drive it. Wanna talk about frustrations ?....LOL
I don't blame you and from your introduction post looks like you have been "tinkering" for awhile with cars.
Just a couple of ideas: Sometimes you can get deadheading/cavitation which can cause issues. On your custom shroud do you have any holes in it with dampers or rubber flaps? This will let the air pass thru when getting up in speed but at idle they will hold shut from the fan pulling air thru the radiator. Here is a link with spals setup with a row on the top and bottom of shroud assy:
http://www.spalusa.com/pdf/30102052_SPEC.PDF#view=FitH
Also which March pulley set are you running? If is the underdriven that may be your problem, they do make a high water flow set.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:24 PM
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So perhaps the pump is being overdriven. Perhaps not. I agree if it is not a high volume pump, it should be.

I also agree that the fans require a shroud. I don't think you're pulling air through even half of the radiator's surface area.

You should have the two largest fans that will fit, in the highest CFM available for that size, and a good shroud.

If you took it to a shop to have it checked out, and they put in the restrictor, they should have told you.

PatM
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:49 PM
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You mentioned the pump is a reverse rotation. I would check to make sure maybe it was mis-labeled? Just a thought. You could also pull the pump an see if the vanes inside are still good maybe they broke. IDK Just a thought.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:54 PM
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502 SS Impala Overheating Issues

Well I looked at a set of BBC pulleys for a 1996 7.4. The crank pulley is 5.750" and the water pump which Summit Racing list (2) is 5.250 and 6.250. With the 6.250 wwp the turns 920 revolutions. With the 5.250 wwp it turns 1095 revolutions. With the pulleys you have now the wwp turns 1377 revolutions. In my opinion you don't have sufficient air flow because of the lack of shrouding. Another thing the stock fans are two speed, one fan runs continuous and the other suppose to be high speed to come on when AC is turn on. I would get a new set of fans from Be Cool that put out 3650 CFM at the high setting temp (210) and cut off at the low setting temp.

Last edited by cdminter59; 08-30-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:50 AM
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502 SS Impala Overheating Issues

Well after many time of diss-assemble and assembly I also tried everything suggested by a couple of differernt forums. I also have spent about $1,300.00 dollars of modifications and got very frustrated.

1) The sending unit to the gage on the dash was originally located in the passenger side head with 230 to 260 readings on the gauge. The responses from different posts everyone said to move the sending unit to the front of the intake manifold because you get a better overall temp of the water coming out of the engine.

2) I first found other issues that I had stated earlier in this thread and I corrected those issues but it really didn't change the temp readings from the sensor in the cylinder head.

3) I ended up with a 180 stat in the housing and before I put the sensor in the intake I wanted to put a mechanical gauge directly into the intake without any wiring. (I wanted to see the temp at the engine screwed directly into the intake). I work at a place where we keep temp gauges in stock but they have about a 5 inch long temp probe so I had to put some piping together for the tip of the gauge to be in the proper position. I ran the motor for about an hour with the hood open and the gauge stayed between 183 and 185 degrees. I then closed the hood, turned the AC on max and let the car sit in the garage for about another hour. The temp outside was a low 90 degree day and I figured by sitting in the garage there was no real air flow other than the stock electric fans. I opened the hood and the gauge was at 185 to 187 so I figured that I was getting a false reading from the sensor in the cylinder head due to header heat and combustion temps.

3) Well after that test I desided to move the sensor to the intake but the gauge on the dash now says 140 to 145 degrees. I purchased another sensor and still the same readings of 140 to 145. The frustration continues, why isn't the gauge on the dash saying what the mechanical gauge told me. I have a digital touch probe and put it on the (T) fitting where the sensor is screwed into and the digital gauge reads 185 degrees. I really would like for the gauge on my dash to read the correct temp but at this point I am lost. I know the car is running at 185 due to the mechanical and digital tests that I did so for now I will just have to remember that 140 on the gauge means 185.

4) I also wanted to see what temp I get when you shut the car off because once the water flow stops the temp will increase. I shut the car off after about an hour of running then sat in the car and watched the gauge. The dash gauge got up to 220 degrees on the guage so I opened the hood and put my digital gauge on the (T) fitting that the sensor is screwed into and the highest the digital gauge went to was 205 degrees.

5) I still do not know why I am getting such high temps out of the cylinder head gauge but I did read one forum that said they had seen issues with the Edelbrock RPM heads having casting material in the cooling pasages causing flow issues. I do agree that you get a better overall reading of the motor temp from the intake next to the thermostat housing.

6) The cooling system on my car still uses the original resevour tank with a 15 pound cap. The car has never spit water out the cap and does not smell hot but I still have the high cylinder head temp readings.

7) I still have the issue of the timing that I feel is to high and maybe that is why I have such high cylinder temps. I am going to take the car to a dyno shop next so they can get everything properly tuned because this car has the OBD2 computer and a marine EFI controller which I know nothing about. I wish I knew how to set the timing but from what I understand you cannot just turn the distributer because the computer will take over and change it back to what the computer was set to. The current idle timing I checked was at 38 degrees and when I would rev the engine it would go to 43 degrees. Once everything is properly set I will un-plug the sensor in the intake and plug it back into the cylinder head because I have left that sensor in the head. I would like to see that cylinder head temp down but the fact is that the overall temp coming out of the intake is only 185 so does that head temp really matter.

8) The question remains: did I really fix anything yet even though I am getting the correct temp readings coming out of the intake. The other issue is that my gauge on the dash still reads incorrect compared to what the digital gauge tells me. Still Frustrated a little but I do feel better knowing that the overall temp coming out of the motor is really 185 degrees.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:45 AM
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I can't help with your problem but I might know some people who can. Several people on the ImpalaSS forum have 502's and may have some ideas. Really good group of guys too. www.impalassforum.com. Good luck, Bill.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:07 AM
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502 SS Impala Overheating Issues

While I don't not know if you can get a replacement Temp gauge, you could check at the local Chevrolet Dealer to see If it is still available. it is not unusual for the temp of the head to be higher than the intake. Even aftermarket manufacturers recommend putting the sensor in the intake. The tempature always rises after you stop the engine IDK why. I glad to see that your car is not really running hot. You could install an Autometer electric temp gauge if you had to.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:56 PM
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?????????

Is there an AIR DAM under the front of the car?if not,put one in..PUT an add on,Temp guage in the car......
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:29 PM
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Did you ever have a new program installed onto the ECM? Since the car is a 96 model year it is using the OBD II system and they are programmed for hot temps, 210-230* for emission reductions. The only way to use a lower t-stat and change timing, fuel map, and fan operation is with a reprogrammed chip or ECM. You can throw lots of parts and the ECM will always use the stock progamming from GM. If you do that I believe you will fix your problems without throwing more parts and money at it and you could enjoy your car as it was meant to be. Call Jet Performance, or Hypertech or any custom electronics flasher for proms and they can help you out. Hope you find a solution, it can be very frustrating when you cannot enjoy your hot rod without issues.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:12 PM
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My car is a 83 Camaro with a 540 CID. Its NOT a race motor thou. Just a small hyd, roller cam, Wiends Team G dual plain intake, headers and GM 088 steel heads. Pump gas motor 10:3 1 compression. Thats it ! No computer ! Straight forward old school carb. I spoke with Griffin rad Friday and Patrick there { oh boy } he wants for me to install an oil cooler. Says that will probably take off 5-15 degrees....LOL I asked Patrick the following questions.
1... Why would I have to install an oil cooler? My $630 rad according to Griffins advertisment will handle over 600 HP ? I may be pushing the HP limit but doubt so.
2... Why did he think that the motor will idle all day long and never go above 210, and when it does get to 210 it cools down to 190 with a medium sized Milidon restrictor plate. {restrictor plate not my idea}Could he tell me if the coolant was not being held in tha rad long enuff or maybe too long ? He had no answer.
3... Why after upgrading everything about the coolant system shouldn't I be able to run this car around town and not have it go over 190- 200.
4... So I guess after the $630 rad, $300 March serp belt set up, $100 Canton recovery tank, $125 CSR thermo housing, 2 Wiend hi flow alum water pumps, 2-3 thermostats, 3 restrictors, 3-4 Different electric fans systems, custom shrouds, etc. Countless hours of frustration, and just outright tired of dealing with this problem. I have learned that even thou you buy what is supposed to be the best. Even thou just one item may cost you almost a full weeks salary that has been suggested by the 'experts". They are all just guessing. Funny thing is, Patrick could not answer the one question I would love to know the answer. That question was .....How on this earth can anyone sell radiators based on HP rating ?
Then when a customer has an issue all they can do is suggest to purchase more expensive, time consuming parts. Sorry folks for the raint. But this whole scenerio has me baffled at every point.
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