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Old 07-03-2006, 09:39 AM
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51 Ford F-4 spindle swap

I just aquired a 51 F-4 (obviously) and I wanted to see if I can keep it simple. I want to **** can those 17" wheels and get back to a descent bolt pattern. Is there a spindle off of something else that will go on with little to no modification? Will I have to find a F-1 axle first? I suppose the king pins could be bigger. Is there possibly a hub that will fit the spindles already on there?

Thanks guys!!

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Old 07-03-2006, 10:25 AM
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Are you sure it is an F4 as they are catalogued with either 18" or 20" wheels.

Can you supply the VIN, GVW and WB off the Rating Plate?



Additionally, does the truck have disc or spoke wheels and are they tube type or tubeless rims?

Last edited by KULTULZ; 07-03-2006 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Because I Forgot To Ask Something...
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Old 07-04-2006, 06:10 AM
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You're right, they're 18s. I noticed that yesterday.


They're the tube type split ring wheels, 5 bolt.
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Old 07-04-2006, 06:27 AM
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If you wish to keep it simple as possible those split rims can be replaced with modern tubeless wheels and tires..I don't believe that bolt pattern has been changed..FYI..we have been changing out split rims for the tubeless on trucks for quite a few years now..A good truck shop should have or be albe to get the rims you need..Be prepared for about 100 each for rims plus a new tire..

That will work unless there is something else you just have to do..

Sam
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Old 07-04-2006, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46stude

You're right, they're 18s. I noticed that yesterday.

They're the tube type split ring wheels, 5 bolt.
You have a 5 X 8" pattern. The F2/3 has a 8 X 6.5" pattern. The F1 has a 5 (stud) x 5.5" (circle) pattern (hub) whether 15" or 16" wheels.

From what I am seeing in the 1948/1956 FORD TRUCK MPC, it will be simpler for you to find an F1 front axle as the pins are larger on your present axle (1.129" compared to .813") (no interchanging hub). OL length of the F1 axle is 50.66" whereas the F4 is 51.70". The spring seat center to center is 29" on either. The leaf spring width is a little wider on yours (2.58" X 3.00") as compared to the F1 axle (2.34" x 2.76") (these are the spring mount measurements-u-bolts on the axle spring pads) (mounting plates can be made up to hold the spring steady).

(Look for correction of this statement below).

The F1 axle (and matching hub) will give you the 5 X 5.5" mounting pattern that will allow the use of later wheels. Is this truck going to be used as a work truck or just show? What are you going to do on the rear?

If work and you need to keep the pin and hub strength, you should be able to find steel tubeless or even Alcoas for the origional hub.

Hope that helps a little.

Addendum (emphasis on dum)-

Quote:
The leaf spring width is a little wider on yours (2.58" X 3.00") as compared to the F1 axle (2.34" x 2.76") (these are the spring mount measurements-u-bolts on the axle spring pads) (mounting plates can be made up to hold the spring steady).
The MPC does not give the eye to eye length of the springs so you would have to measure that distance on the trucks. The F1 is an eight leaf whereas the F4 is twelve. If the springs cannot be interchanged without a lot of work (relocating hangers and such), you would have to chamfer (notch) the individual leaves where they rest on the axle spring pads so the u-bolts will slide over them.

I got myself backwards on the first statement.

Last edited by KULTULZ; 07-04-2006 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Didn't Get My Story Straight The First Time
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Old 07-04-2006, 08:27 AM
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here's what the alcoa rims look like on a 48 F6 coe with all stock running gear. I believe they had to be drilled for the 5x8 bolt pattern. I will call him and verify that and also the dia.
I am sure that the tires are 32" tall, but I cant remember if the rims are 18" or 20". the tires are motorhome size tires.
The truck uses the stock brakes (monster drums)and they work really well.
mikey
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:07 AM
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Kultulz,
Thanks for the information, that will help tremendously. Can you tell me what years/ models used the F-1 axle? (I know a guy that has a 40 Ford car axle, but is it the same?) I've heard some guys take out every other leaf to lower their trucks, maybe I could do the same, but they'll still be too wide...

I guess I should have explained my intentions also. My dad has had this truck for about 10 years and recently retired it. I would like to make it a toy, just something to take to car shows and cruises... no work. I like the look of the rat rod, so I think I'll leave the exterior pretty much the same, but would like to paint up and maybe hop up the little Flat 6 and do some interior work. I understand I'll need to shorten the wheelbase for a bed and I plan to use the springs, hangers and a 9" rear out of a late 70's 1/2 ton. It already has a carrier at the back of the cab for the driveshaft, maybe I could get lucky and just have to find/ make the last section of shaft to work with the 9". I'm pretty sure I'll need 1/2 ton front fenders also, as the wheel opening is smaller, right?
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Old 07-04-2006, 11:12 AM
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The F1 front axle described here (with close measurements to the F4) are catalogued 48/52 (PN 7RC 3010-B). The next (53/56 F1/F2) has a width of 53.88".

As for the overwidth spring leaves at the spring pad, just grind insets into the leaves (have to take apart and make stencil, grind and reassemble).

Rough drawing;

i..i
] [
i..i

You may be able to use the car axle if the measurements are about the same and the wheel bolt pattern is what you need.

The 51/52 F1 had different fenders than the 51/52 F2/F3/F4 (these took the same fenders). I do not know the differences but wheel opening size does sound correct.

The later pickup truck rear sounds good. If you need a matching two-piece driveshaft, look for one from a later F250/350. May have to have a tube shortened or lengthened.

And yes, you would remove leaves to soften the spring asm.
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Old 07-04-2006, 11:48 AM
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Ok, the 53.88... where is that to? Is that from spindle ends or king pins? (That way I know what to measure if I see one)

Were the front fenders on the 48-52 1/2 tons the same or the 51/52s different? Also, does your book tell you the wheelbase on the f-1s?

Thanks for all the great info!!
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Old 07-04-2006, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46stude

Ok, the 53.88... where is that to? Is that from spindle ends or king pins? (That way I know what to measure if I see one)
Spindle Bolt Center to Spindle Bolt Center.

Quote:
Were the front fenders on the 48-52 1/2 tons the same or the 51/52s different? Also, does your book tell you the wheelbase on the f-1s?
The MPC lists 48/50 the same and 51/52 as the same.

The WB and Weight Rating will be on the Rating (VIN) Plate.

Quote:
Thanks for all the great info!!
No problem. I hope it helps.
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:54 PM
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Here it is guys... I'm thinking about painting the grille a silver or gray, but other than that not much else, as far as painting.

I was wondering the wheelbase on an F-1 so I'd have some idea where my axle is gonna have to be.
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Old 07-06-2006, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46stude

I was wondering the wheelbase on an F-1 so I'd have some idea where my axle is gonna have to be.
Cataloging gives the WB for a 50/52 F4 as 134". But if for some reason you haven't a rating plate, stretch a tape to verify. This is not 100% accurate.
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