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53 Belair conv rust repair

1M views 6K replies 111 participants last post by  Eduramac 
#1 ·
I just brought home a 1953 Chevy convertible Monday that is 100% there. 100% there except for the bottom 6 inches that is. I have always built rusty cars no one else wanted but have tried to do a quality job of repairing them on a budget.

The key wordhere is budget. I admit to being frugal but friends all say I am cheap. Whatever, for me to be able to enjoy this hobby I must be able to build the car and have my money invested, not just spent

The cost of replacement floor pans, floor braces, inner rockers, outer rockers, lower quarter panels, tow boards, trunk pan, rear pan extension, tail pan, and rear splash apron is well over 3000 dollars. That is money that will buy front suspension, rear axle, and good buildable engine. Maybe even a complete parts car.

I have basic sheet metal tools but nothing exotic. Small 3' brake, Shrinker/stretcher jaws, home made slip roll, and a home made english wheel and 110v mig welder.

My purpose here is to show the new hot rodder who is apprehensive about what he can do what is possible with a little time and patience and not much money.

Below is the patient. She has stage four cancer but we are going to try to save her. If we don't who will? :mwink:








So far I have stripped the inside, removed the front fenders and adjusted the doors. If the body shifts or moves during the build process I want to know it before everything gets welded together. Frequently checking door gaps will let me make sure it has not moved.




Tomorrow I plan to cut the toe boards loose from the front floor brace and expose the brace. The first job will be to remove the brace and reproduce it.

I hope you guys follow along and feel free to comment share thoughts, opinions, etc.

 
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#455 ·
OK. Back to building body mounts. Don't think this one is usable



I had posted a few days ago showing the lower U channel portions of these being made. Here is a shot of the flanges ready to be trimmed and fitted to the main piece. I also had to make the inner reinforcement for the mount out of 12 gauge.



I thought I would get these tacked together today but did not get that far.

By the way, The only tools used here are the shrinker/stretcher jaws and vice and a big hammer to bend the 12 gauge

 
#465 · (Edited)
So true Randy, I was doing the inner cross member on a hood. I was hoping that I could get away with just adding a piece taken from another hood, but, because of the way it all came together I had to build a piece of cross member, weld it in, clean up the welds and make it look like it never had any work done to it and of coarse if there is one side to do, there's always the other side.

It took me quite a bit of time and when it was done, I was proud of it...so I made the fatal mistake of showing my Wife what I had done...Her response was, "And that took you all morning and the better part of the afternoon"...LOL.

It is time consuming and the sad part is that if you did it properly, your reward is the fact that nobody can tell you did it.

Ray
 
#466 ·
I'm amazed

I just found your thread browsing for ideas on my own project, a 50 chevy pickup. It was like reading a great book, once i started i just couldn't stop.
I've learned more following you and the other posters in a couple of hours than I could ever imagine! This is my first project, and i'm starting on body work, using patch panels to repair cab corners and lower cowl sections. You talked about plug welding some of your pieces, could you elaborate?
Thanks for the very well done lessons!:D
 
#467 ·
I just found your thread browsing for ideas on my own project, a 50 chevy pickup. It was like reading a great book, once i started i just couldn't stop.
I've learned more following you and the other posters in a couple of hours than I could ever imagine! This is my first project, and i'm starting on body work, using patch panels to repair cab corners and lower cowl sections. You talked about plug welding some of your pieces, could you elaborate?
Thanks for the very well done lessons!:D
Glad to bbeins. If you look at post 123 of this thread you will see where I drilled holes in the top piece to be welded. When it is welded to the bottom piece you weld through the holes to the bottom piece filling the hole. When you are done you have a weld that is pretty well hidden or looks very much like a factory spot weld.

John
 
#468 ·
#469 ·
Excellent advise. I read it several times to make sure I followed your system. I will have plenty of opportunities to put that to use.

I did finish the next row of mounts. I have yet to trim the ends and still have to repair the cross brace but the challenging part is done. At this point the part I hate is grinding the welds.

I did put on the roll of EZ Grind wire and used it for these last 2 mounts (except for the part I gas welded). It probably does grind a little easier but I am not sure it warrents the extra money. Also it burns through a little easier and I found myself lowering the temp a little. I don't hate it but don't think it is greater than sliced bread either.

I appriciate the advice and see from the number of thanks under your post there were many others who did also. Thanks again.

John







 
#470 ·
Barb must have seen that dirt smudge on the table cloth too and told you to get your dirty parts over to the sink...:D

Good eval on the wire. I won't buy any. I had a roll of .023 wire that I bought several years ago that was supposed to be great for auto restoration and will weld thru rust and paint. It too burned thru easily and would arc back into the tip quite often. When it did that it would wind itself around the feed spool...:mad: This happened REPEATEDLY until I took it out and tossed it. I went back to .030 and had less problems with arc back. I later realized the ground clamp was junk right from Miller and changed it to a better one. That helped the burn back into the tip on start a lot, but the wire fed slowly after that and I eventually had to replace the entire hose and end because the wire had melted thru the liner when the ground wasn't good. Cost me $150 to replace it due to a cheap clamp from Miller. I wasn't happy and almost sold it to buy a Lincoln.
 
#476 ·
Also Brian, I have found that other types of spot weld drill bits will work. Since there is no weld in a panel you are preparing, the spot weld drill acts like a hole saw. When it goes through the top panel it removes the plug. Of course it will not remove any of the lower panel as the drill you pictured would. But for preparing a new panel that may be fine.

John
 
#477 ·
Yep I have photos of them in the "Basics" too.





The problem with that of course would be you would need to still clean up that metal to weld to. But if you were welding to thin metal this would most certainly be a way to go. The difference is if you have it clamped down tight and drill a hole like this the back side of the upper piece remains smooth at the edge of the hole and you don't need to grind it flat. Be it with this "hole saw" style or the other bits I showed. But of course the best part is it prepares the lower metal to weld to with the other bits. When that lower metal is thicker the first bits I showed cuts down into that lower metal providing a perfect welding condition.

Brian
 
#478 ·
Good point. I did not think about your type bit would also remove the paint in the lower piece. My bit would only remove a ring so you would indeed have to prepair the lower piece of metal...... Looks like I need to order a new spot weld bit. :D:)

Being able to paint the piece instead of using weldable primer will more than pay for the bit.

John
 
#479 ·
The ones in photo #2 are priceless in my opinion, yes they are about $25-35 each but they are priceless. The one on the left on this older, thicker metal would barely put a mark with that pilot tip. Those photos #12 and #13 remember are 22 gauge late model Honda or something, in 18 or 16 gauge it simply leaves you perfect conditions for a weld, shiny new metal, thinned a little, it is soooo nice. You can lay plug welds flat as can be.

Brian
 
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#480 ·
My experience with the hole saw style drills is that the tips break off on hard spot welds. They work good for prepping new panels for welding but I use the solid bit style for actual weld removal. From experience, I can tell when I am close to going thru the first panel and stop. On rusty seams, you will get a slight puff of red dust when you hit the second one and can stop, leaving that panel intact for welding too. I always try to leave the material on a panel I'm not replacing but if the bit goes thru, I have a plug weld vise grips and if that won't work, I have a piece of copper and magnets to use as a backer to get a clean "spot" weld in the hole.

As for welding a thick piece of metal to a thinner one, I use a circular motion, keeping the majority of the puddle on the heavier edge and filling the "hole" that way until I can end it in the center. I've had very good results, once I get the heat and feed set right for the situation. That is key to any welding job. Practice on scrap to get the settings that will work before "messing up" the actual part.
 
#483 ·
My experience with the hole saw style drills is that the tips break off on hard spot welds. They work good for prepping new panels for welding but I use the solid bit style for actual weld removal. From experience, I can tell when I am close to going thru the first panel and stop. On rusty seams, you will get a slight puff of red dust when you hit the second one and can stop, leaving that panel intact for welding too. I always try to leave the material on a panel I'm not replacing but if the bit goes thru, I have a plug weld vise grips and if that won't work, I have a piece of copper and magnets to use as a backer to get a clean "spot" weld in the hole.
EXACTLY, personally, I haven't used one in 25 years. When I was doing that "Basics" and my co-worker showed me his I was thrilled to get a shot of it and it's use so I could show it in the "Basics" in case someone found it useful. The Spitznagel Spot Annihilator (yes that's what they call it!) is THE BOMB! All the components and tool you see is about $700 (it's a little cheaper now, when I bought the tool it was about $450 as I remember) and worth every dime to a pro doing collision work every day.



As for welding a thick piece of metal to a thinner one, I use a circular motion, keeping the majority of the puddle on the heavier edge and filling the "hole" that way until I can end it in the center. I've had very good results, once I get the heat and feed set right for the situation. That is key to any welding job. Practice on scrap to get the settings that will work before "messing up" the actual part.
EXACTLY! Drilling the hole as laid out in the "tip of the day" and welding it like that produces a VERY nice weld. I should have explained it like that!

Brian
 
#484 ·
I am DYING to see the floor it's self John! With the tricks you have shown us on the braces that I never would have thought of, I am DYING to see the floor!

Brian
 
#486 ·
My pleasure to gain some good advice

My intentions were to do some repair on the floorpan channel today but when I looked at it closely it became painfully clear that replacing both flat sections wood be easier than repairing it.

If you notice, these are not straight as they appear. They are level from the end to just inside of the body bolt and then they angle upward toward the center of the car.


You can see this puppy is pretty rough.

I made a good carboard template and transrerred it to the sheet metal. I had to notch the wider side. It was more than my shrinker jaws could do. I was able to shrink the narrow side.

Also, the bottom of the channel and body mount are level so I cut slots so I could bend the "joggle" that offsets it so they are level.



This part I was able to bend in the brakeNdmake sure it would fit the body mount.


The bends were to close to each other to make in the brake so I had to do the flanges by working it through the vice. If you take your time and do it in 6-7 passes you can really make some pretty good bends.


Here it is clamped together in the car. I am going to make the other side before I weld anything. It has occurred to me today that if I had enough pairs of vice grips I would not need to do any welding.:mwink:


 
#488 ·
I am always intrigued by the spiderweb frame on that car. The top plate doesn't look very elegant either. Looks like when the occasional convertible came down the frame line a worker would cut out a piece from a flat sheet of steel, weld it to one side of the crossmember and beat it over to the other side to weld. Not that it needs to be elegant, but with the amount of rust present, I would use my cut off blade to sever the welds and remove it to treat the rust under it and inspect the center joints for cracks/rust. Once removed, the plate could be thoroughly cleaned in a blasting cabinet.
 
#489 ·
You are correct TMP. It is an ugly set up. Once the body is solid it absolutely has to come off the frame. One thing for sure though, that has to be one stout frame.

This is a budget build but I would love to put a Heidt's front end under the car. I will have to have the frame sandblasted, etc. I have intentionally not thought a lot further than getting rid of the rust. By only thinking about the rust I do 2 things.

First, it keeps the project from becoming so big that I can't see light at the end of the tunnel.

Second, it makes the car desirable to someone else if my health should prevent me from finishing it. As it was when I brought it home, no one else would have wanted it.

When I get to the frame it also will be a project all to itself.

Thanks for the interest and feedback.

John
 
#490 ·
"Stout" is right. They certainly didn't rely on the body to hold it's own shape as the convertibles evolved into.

You're sense of focus is better than mine. I would have to peel that top plate off before putting the floor pan on just out of curiousity. Maybe that's why I get "sidetracked'...:rolleyes:

I hear ya on the frame off fo' sho'.
 
#491 ·
Today I managed to make the other channel for the cross brace.



Fortunately the center hump was in fairly good condition and since I cut it out of the old brace it was small enough to go in my sand blast cabinet.



It came together nicely but if it looks to you like the RH side is further forward it is not an optical illusion. There is almost a 3/8 of an inch difference between the two sides. I am just too tired to follow up on it tonight but will have to figure it out tomorrow if I make it to the shop. Nothing is welded yet so it should be easily corrected.

John

 
#492 ·
John...again, just amazed...This is a thread that everyone and anyone should read and study if they are considering building or rebuilding any part of a vehicle on there own, experienced or not. I'm sure you've mentioned what you used to do for a living in your working career but it slips my mind at the moment. I could see anything from engineer to teacher...even farmer...in Canada we have a saying, "if something is broken and you need it fixed right away, give it to a farmer...they've had to fix everything at a moments notice, other wise the crop wouldn't get off the field".

Always holds my attention John.

Ray
 
#498 ·
They very well may have been at one time Ray I went to work for them in about 1998 when Daimler bought out the heavy duty Ford line. (L Series) and began to build the Sterling brand. I always preferred PPG over Dupont personally. If Freightliner had used PPG I would have known.

I had done a couple of things with Centari back in the early 70's and hated it. Soured me on Dupont and I never gave it another chance.

John
 
#500 ·
Then I would say you are right...I was just thinking back to when I was a Dupont Rep...maybe they never sent me to a Freightlinner shop was because I now remember...they didn't have a dealership in the Northern part of the Province I was in...LOL...that would explain it I'm sure.

Your probably the first person I know that didn't like Centari in the Early 70's. That was the revolutionary paint of it's time and Dupont rested on the laurels of Centari for years, even after they took the lead out of the Paint, some shops still swore by it....until every other paint company surpassed them in technology. Their Hi Tech line of base coat was an absolute failure in my opinion, old lacquer technology turned into a base coat...then they brought in Chroma Base...there's a base coat that used some Centari Acrylic Enamel toners. It wasn't until they brought out Chroma Premiere that they seemed to get back in the game and had a product offering that could compete with not only brands like Deltron, global, Diamont and others including the European paint technology.

What was it that turned you off of Centari, I never was a fan, when I got into the paint business in the early 80's...Centari wasn't what it used to be.

Today, there is so little difference in top of the line products from manufacturer to manufacturer, they all work...it's just the price...tough to justify paying $800.00 and more for a gallon of red base coat.

Ray
 
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