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-   -   540 BBC build (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/540-bbc-build-173970.html)

Biscuit6447 03-04-2010 11:21 PM

540 BBC build
 
So i have officially decided to abandon my 500hp 327 screamer deal, and go strait to real business. I would like to get some feedback on the build plan i have for a 540bbc.

Dart big M, 9.8" deck, either 4.5 or 4.6" bore
Brodix bb-2x (340cc intake) or bb-2xtra (365cc intake)
They come assemble with either 1.550 or 1.625 dual springs for roller cams
lunati 4340 sledgehammer 4.25 stroke, 2 piece rear seal
eagle esp h-beams with l-19 rod bolts (6.385")
Not sure of pistons yet
will have arp studs and fasteners throughout
a pretty agressive solid roller, in the 250+ range @.050
lunati voodoo 60233 (249/255@.050, .663,.680)
comp cam XR292R (254/260 @.050,.66,.666)
something bigger?
a victor or team-g type intake
hooker super comp's 1-7/8" x30" (engine swap header)


i would like 700hp+ N/A on pump gas, but i am not looking t squeeze every last hp out of it. i want a quality, thought out build. I have no problem checking springs every 6 months or whatever, i LOVE to work on engines so i have no problem pulling the motor every 6 months or a year to freshen things up.

this will be my daily driver, but i am looking for 10's in the 1/4 ( i have a bet with my dad, grandpa, and brother that i can do it, or else i loose $40 ;) )

I am looking to make this a horsepower build, not a torque monster. i understand that i will be a little rough around the edges, but i can handle much more in a DD than most.

What i have to work with:
car is a 1988 camaro, not tubed or anyting, all stock.
i just got a new TKO 600 5-speed, and.... hate to say... but a 7.5" 10-bolt rear. i do have all aftermarket axles, eaton trutrac posi, and 4.10:1 gears. :pain:
the car weighs in at 3200# from the factory, but i stripped it and i will run it with no a/c, no heater, and only the basic need to be legal on the street and on the track. electric WP, alternator, and i might end up keeping p/s so that i can do a hydroboost brake system (for that sake of valve cover to booster clearance)

I need some advise on a few things:
Pistons, i need some kind of dome to get about 11:1 CR, and would like to be able to handle 7000ish rpm. I don't think i need top dollar Diamond or custom pistons, be something like Wiseco, JE, SRP, Mahle?
intake? do i need a dominator?
would a small single plane like a victor jr work, or a 4500 super victor?
how about those brodix heads? overkill? not enough velocity?
i have read into some other 500+ bbc build, and they all seam to use HUGE cams and less than 11:1 cr. when you get into really big cubes, is it easier to run a radical with being to insane?
are 1-7/8 headers big enough? 3" dual exhaust big enough? my only dilemma is my car. headers on a sbc in my car are a pain, and the stock exhaust was a 2-1/2 y-pipe!

even though it is my DD, it won't see too many miles. 20 miles to and from work 4 times a week, 40 miles to and from school 2 times a week. I will eventually be living on-campus after i finish my AS degree, so then it will be my show-off car. :D but anyways....

I won't have this built for at least 6 months. I Would like to have a solid plan so that i can buy parts along the way so i can find deals on parts.

i.e. i found those $570 esp rods for $450 new on ebay, i found a new $1000 holley ultra dominator on ebay for around $500. i would like to jump on these deals so that i can save a little in the long run.

advice, comments, and warnings welcome! :thumbup:

tyhn19 03-04-2010 11:46 PM

wow!
 
that build up is ready to get a race?


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techinspector1 03-05-2010 12:24 AM

Here's the answer to the headers....
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ers/index.html
And here's the motor build....nice piece....
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...est/index.html

This is an interesting paragraph from the build....
"In its final (to date) 790hp configuration, this engine is capable of propelling a 3,000-pound car with a professional-level chassis into the 8.90s at 150-plus mph. But if I had to pick one all-round best combo out of this entire marathon, one that is equally at home on the street or at the strip, it would be the 694hp/694-lb-ft mid-level combo where the engine was equipped with Brodix Race-Rite oval-port heads, the Lunati solid roller Voodoo cam with 255/263 duration at 0.050, Hooker headers with 2-inch primaries by 31/2-inch collectors, and the Holley 950-cfm Ultra HP carburetor atop the Wilson-modified Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake. This combo ran well from 2,500 to 6,500 rpm, producing 694 lb-ft at 4,800 and 694 hp at 5,800 rpm. It averaged more than 633 lb-ft and nearly 543 hp through the overall curve. This kind of output is still enough to drive our proverbial 3,000-pound car to a potential 9.30-second, 144-mph quarter-mile e.t. Back in the '70s, that was Pro Stock territory-now it's the ultimate street/strip Godzilla terror"

Biscuit6447 03-05-2010 12:37 AM

looking at how much the #'s increase, i am wondering if that specific motor combination is the restricting factor (from 1-7/8" to 2" only +2hp?). but i see that the custom headers shine the most. Ed Quay Race cars make specific fit header for BBC's in 82-92 camaros starting at 2-1/8, but past that size it becomes real expensive and a real pain to get to fit. i guess headers will be the last thing i get.

ericnova72 03-05-2010 02:40 AM

Why not do a 427-ish SBC?? Lighter, cheaper, easier to fit, easier on the already endangered 7.5" rear(I really recommend ditching it for a 8.8" Ford conversion at least). It would more than meet your goal and be a more balanced car.

Guy Hiltz 03-05-2010 05:03 AM

That 7.5 rearend will not last long at the power level you are aiming for,no matter what you do to it.I blew one up with less HP than you are planning on making,it wasnt a pretty sight.
Guy

my87Z 03-05-2010 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Hiltz
That 7.5 rearend will not last long at the power level you are aiming for,no matter what you do to it.I blew one up with less HP than you are planning on making,it wasnt a pretty sight.
Guy

i too blew one of these rears up with a touch over 500hp within 2 weeks of having the motor in the car and i hadn't even put slicks on it or launched it hard from a dead stop yet, after i pulled the rear cover it looked like metal soup. after i convinced my wife i needed to shell out some more loot for a rear i got this one

http://www.moserengineering.com/comp...figurator.html

delivered to a local parcel service in my area, and for me to pick it up there it cost me just shy of 3000.00, but i also had it built to handle a good 200hp more than i am putting too it, so i would have room for possible future plans

techinspector1 03-05-2010 12:08 PM

These fellows are giving you good advice Biscuit. Another point of interest is that Chevy diffs have no facility to retain the axle in the event of axle breakage, unlike the venerable Ford 9" rear. Even if you have a good 12-bolt rear, it's still possible to lose a tire/wheel/axle stub into another lane of traffic without an axle retention device. Here's the skinny on it from Moser....
http://projectautos.com/69-camaro/3-racing_project.html

35WINDOW 03-05-2010 04:06 PM

Don't forget that 700 h.p. at Sea level is not 700 h.p. in Denver (maybe more like 575-600), so if you want a true 700 h.p. you'll need to build for 850 or so in Denver-

Biscuit6447 03-05-2010 11:31 PM

thanks for the good advise, and believe me, i will get a 9" asap. My goal here is to build a great motor, and then take it easy as i save up for a sturdy rear and other components.

Quote:

Why not do a 427-ish SBC?? Lighter, cheaper, easier to fit, easier on the already endangered 7.5" rear(I really recommend ditching it for a 8.8" Ford conversion at least). It would more than meet your goal and be a more balanced car.
i also have has several forums about doing that, but in the end i chose bbc. I would like to thank KillerFormula for suggesting the idea, i believe that he was the first one... and it stuck.

i have already laid out about $8000 for the motor alone, but this won't be an over-nighter. if i can get a second job, we that will increase my "budget".

it probably won't see the track untill april 2011.

Thank you Tech for the links, i well be doing a bit of reading.


i guess i got ahead of myself.... I really only need 600ish hp to run 10's. i honestly don't think i can handle a motor that has potential for 9's. but then again... there is no such thing as too much HP :D

i might step down to the bb-2plus heads, and aim for power levels in their area of the field.


BUT for now, i am looking for good internal parts that will handle anything from 600hp to 800hp.

Would a lunati sledgehammer with eagle esp rods be appropriate for this power range?


i will see what is doable, and figure a more specific plan.


edit: in the 540 Godzilla Rat article, i do like the bb-2plus build with the lunati 272/280 cam and the super victor. it seams to pump out real good torque #'s and and good HP.

b00tz 03-06-2010 02:23 AM

why couldnt you put in a corporate 14 bolt FF in the rear? ive always wondered why people dont use them in high horsepower cars, theyre just about indestructable, parts are cheap, axles wont fly out, what more could you ask for?

Studebaker 03-06-2010 01:29 PM

Tough rearend
 
It amazes me that anyone would use a GM rearend in anything with any torque or horsepower. Even in general use the GM 10 (and 12) bolt is prone to Failure. Most failures involve pinion coming apart or axle breakage resulting in severe vehicle damage. By the time you modify a GM rear end to survive, you could have saved time and a lot of money and updated to a Ford 9" inch and be done and forget about it. The 9" is simple, heavy duty, and easy to maintain and service. There are hundreds gear or diff upgrades availible. The 9" is just the standard of the hot rod industry. Case closed.

techinspector1 03-06-2010 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b00tz
why couldnt you put in a corporate 14 bolt FF in the rear? ive always wondered why people dont use them in high horsepower cars, theyre just about indestructable, parts are cheap, axles wont fly out, what more could you ask for?

Lack of different ratio gearsets available, most likely.

ericnova72 03-06-2010 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b00tz
why couldnt you put in a corporate 14 bolt FF in the rear? ive always wondered why people dont use them in high horsepower cars, theyre just about indestructable, parts are cheap, axles wont fly out, what more could you ask for?

I can't believe you even said this LOL. For a mid 80's Camaro(or anything that isn't a 3/4T or bigger truck) it is at least a foot too wide, weighs a ton, has huge hubs, brakes and 8 bolt wheels, and the list goes on.

Pass some of that BC bud your smokin' down this way :drunk:

cobalt327 03-06-2010 08:10 PM

But hey, you can get some 20" Buds/truck tires on the back (no worry about tire clearance- the tires will be outside the wheel wells)- that way the mileage will increase- it'll always be going downhill!


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