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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:47 PM
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well I took my car to a reputable speed shop yesterday out of town and talked to the shop today and they said the springs all checked out good, the lash was set a little off but not a big deal at all.

They are going to put it on the chassis dyno and see what they can find and maybe it will be something small, they said they will try another dist and carb also and if they can fix it easily then they will go ahead and dyno tune it.
so I'm kinda down because i thought for sure it was the springs, they said there was no coil bind and they were all set at 110 on the seat and when they tested a intake and exhaust they were all good at open setting too.

so i have my fingers crossed but it's not looking good and the cost is going up so i hope it pays off then it will be worth it.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2010, 06:14 PM
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If they don't find something quick get it the heck out of there

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadedog
well I took my car to a reputable speed shop yesterday out of town and talked to the shop today and they said the springs all checked out good, ////////////////////

I'm kinda down because i thought for sure it was the springs, they said there was no coil bind and they were all set at 110 on the seat and when they tested a intake and exhaust they were all good at open setting too.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////// it's not looking good and the cost is going up so i hope it pays off then it will be worth it.
If I had to gamble, which is where we are right now, kinda, I would place my next bet on springs..
Even though your cam is a lunati 60102 which is hyd.. I still think it could stand a better spring rate and seat pressure..I've had the impression for a while that Lunati #s like more spring rate than the parallel #s of Comp or Crane.

I've also seen rev kits and or stud girdles cure this in the past. Admittedly it usually involves solid lifters, but when someone says Lunati, I automatically think girdle and spring type rev kit...

The shop isn't going to find in my favor, because they already discounted it...
But I when I hear the euphemism "bumpstick" I think Lunati... sorry just what I think
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2010, 07:36 PM
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my cam is the 60105 .

I haven't got the spring print out yet, I only talked with him on the phone.
we talked yesterday about that problem of cam makers and recomended springs and before i could say anything he said first that most cam makers don't recommend stiffer springs because they don't want to warrenty their cams for failures and he said most need stiffer springs .
So it surprised me when he said these were still good and not the problem.
I'm talking to them again tomorrow and i'll try and find out some more specifics. and maybe some good news for a change.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:26 PM
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I can't think of anything else.

Also it's worth mentioning that I have a collection of take-out cams, various brands and grinds. Some ......many were low mileage.. We've had lots of them in a cracked 0010 block with new cam bearings which we set up for the specific purpose of measuring cam lift timing and duration. Not rare to have lift and duration all over the place, on the same cam, at least in flat tappet.

Since we set that up a few years back, we're mostly roller guys now.

I see .005" even more variation, back and forth on a percentage of new out of the box flat tappet with Comp and Lunati.. You might imagine how the duration and timing might be affected with that much lift variation. Poor QC is rare though, with Isky; even more so with Melling.

Speaking of Melling, factory grinds up to a .222 .444 or even slightly larger can be worn significantly more than that and generally it won't be noticed at all. I've pulled down high mileage factory engines which were still running ok, idling fine, that were worn beyond what a person would believe. I have one in the shop out of my baby brothers 283 from yesteryear that had sixteen nubs; no two remotely alike. I show it to people and tell them it still ran strong...They can't believe it.

None of that applies to high duration aggressively timed cams... I think most will agree, performance cams can't be off much at all without revealing a quirk somewhere in the band.

Also a bad port window match on a single plane intake will do some odd stuff in the band...

Did anyone ask how many miles on it and/or when the problem started? I'm guessing it started out like that... Also verify it WAS NOT an Ebay cam.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2010, 07:37 PM
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update

Well the stutter is gone !

The shop checked a intake and exhaust spring and found they were fine but the rockers were adjusted a full turn tight so he adjusted all the others before going to the dyno.
the stutter was gone right away ,so it must have been the valve lash was too tight.
after 16 pulls they found plugs were way to cold and a blown power valve in the carb.
they played with timing and curved the dist. and added a 1" spacer under the carb and jetted the carb good and it is all dialed in.
weird thing is it makes the most power and torque at 4800 rpm .
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:23 AM
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Glad it's fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadedog
Well the stutter is gone !

The shop checked a intake and exhaust spring and found they were fine but the rockers were adjusted a full turn tight so he adjusted all the others before going to the dyno.
the stutter was gone right away ,so it must have been the valve lash was too tight.
after 16 pulls they found plugs were way to cold and a blown power valve in the carb.
they played with timing and curved the dist. and added a 1" spacer under the carb and jetted the carb good and it is all dialed in.
weird thing is it makes the most power and torque at 4800 rpm .
Well, I'm surprised by that, if they carried it up to 6500 or so. I was really convinced your springs were bouncing.

I'm not surprised by the torque peaking at 4800 but it sounded like you said the horsepower peaked there also.. With your cam specs I would have thought the hp would have climbed for another thousand or so before flattening off.

If they gave you a readout Graph I'd like to see it posted.. Glad it's fixed anyway, and that your money was well spent at the shop. I was the nay sayer, and I'm glad to be taking it back...
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:49 AM
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Glad it's fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadedog
Well the stutter is gone !

The shop checked a intake and exhaust spring and found they were fine but the rockers were adjusted a full turn tight so he adjusted all the others before going to the dyno.
the stutter was gone right away ,so it must have been the valve lash was too tight.
after 16 pulls they found plugs were way to cold and a blown power valve in the carb.
they played with timing and curved the dist. and added a 1" spacer under the carb and jetted the carb good and it is all dialed in.
weird thing is it makes the most power and torque at 4800 rpm .
Well, I'm surprised by that, if they carried it up to 6500 or so. I was really convinced your springs were bouncing.

I'm not surprised by the torque peaking at 4800 but it sounded like you said the horsepower peaked there also.. With your cam specs I would have thought the hp would have climbed for another thousand or so before flattening off.

If they gave you a readout Graph I'd like to see it posted.. Glad it's fixed anyway, and that your money was well spent at the shop. I was the nay sayer, and I'm glad to be taking it back...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:14 PM
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all pulls were up to 6200.

my best torque was at 4600 and max hp was at 4800,a/f ratio was 13.3

I can't post the sheet because something is wrong with my copier and it won't let me copy and send to my computor.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadedog
Well the stutter is gone !
the stutter was gone right away ,so it must have been the valve lash was too tight.
Glad the stutter is gone



Cole
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:27 PM
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I sure thought it would make more power and at only 4800?

could springs still be a factor,would just adjusting the lash cure it?

I'm getting emails from people saying I should change the springs and be making alot more power and that the shop did something to cover up the problem, like detune it ?
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:31 PM
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I've been following this post as well. Good to hear it's running strong... OK, I wish my car could see 5600 rpm's. I'll even take the stutter!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadedog
I sure thought it would make more power and at only 4800?

could springs still be a factor,would just adjusting the lash cure it?

I'm getting emails from people saying I should change the springs and be making alot more power and that the shop did something to cover up the problem, like detune it ?
I went back and read your first post and did you buy the heads new.



Cole
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:48 PM
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I will just be honest if it was mine i would be changing the springs.JMO



Cole
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:48 PM
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I've been through the desert on a horse with no name

Quote:
Originally Posted by eloc431962
I will just be honest if it was mine.................



Cole
Someone has to ask......... What is the torque at 4600? What are the horsepower readings at 4k 5k 6k? Does the torque fall away just after peak, flatten off or taper off gradually? Where does it dive or does it? What is torque at 6k?

Something is still wrong.. I'm hanging in there with Cole but none of us wants to beat a dead horse........... unless we find out the horse was just in a coma and not really dead.



Without seeing your dyno sheet it sounds like a small RV cam without the strong bottom.
OK.. the horses name is Springs Hey Cole!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duntov
Someone has to ask......... What is the torque at 4600? What are the horsepower readings at 4k 5k 6k? Does the torque fall away just after peak, flatten off or taper off gradually? Where does it dive or does it? What is torque at 6k?

Something is still wrong.. I'm hanging in there with Cole but none of us wants to beat a dead horse........... unless we find out the horse was just in a coma and not really dead.



Without seeing your dyno sheet it sounds like a small RV cam without the strong bottom.
OK.. the horses name is Springs Hey Cole!
Right there with you brother.


Cole
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