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-   -   59 chevy steering upgrade (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/59-chevy-steering-upgrade-135610.html)

59 el camino 03-23-2008 05:44 PM

59 chevy steering upgrade
 
Has anyone adapted a wrecking yard rack and pinion steering to their 59 thru 64 chevy? I would like to leave the suspension as is but find something modern to replace the old steering box. p. s., I am cheap! John

Deuce 03-23-2008 07:28 PM

I strongly suggest you read this article on rack and pinion before you invest any time or money into trying to " make something work "

http://crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/...inion_steering

59 el camino 03-23-2008 07:55 PM

Thanks for the warning Deuce. I have put complete IFS under many cars and all have been ok. I believe that my 59 has a true parallel system and the Ackerman angles are built into the spindles. Looks like something like a Pinto or Mustang 2 would help the bump steer, not make it worse. Thanks again, John

Bryan59EC 03-24-2008 06:21 AM

Classic Performace Parts has a new steering box out for the X-Frame cars.

I have a 605 conversion in mine, and am not all that happy with it.
Seems a bit loose to me.

I have yet to see a R&P for these applications

Bryan

powerrodsmike 03-24-2008 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59 el camino
Thanks for the warning Deuce. I have put complete IFS under many cars and all have been ok. I believe that my 59 has a true parallel system and the Ackerman angles are built into the spindles. Looks like something like a Pinto or Mustang 2 would help the bump steer, not make it worse. Thanks again, John



So then you have measured the inner tie rod end ball sockets on the MII rack. And you found that once mounted on your frame and clearing the oil pan and putting the input shaft in a position to accept the steering shaft the centerline of those ball sockets will fall upon the line drawn through the centerline of the upper and lower control arm inner pivots.


Because that is what the tech article from Longacre racing dictates as requirements for minimizing bumpsteer.

Here is the picture from the article..
http://www.longacreracing.com/articl.../bsdrawing.jpg

"looks like something like a Pinto" sounds like a guess to me.


If I were you I'd start by measuring the current suspension, plotting the available points and then start going through various racks and measuring the inner pivot ends. Don't forget that the centerline of those arms inner pivots angle in as veiwed from above as well as from the front.

Find a rack that will put the ends on "line 2 " on that picture. So far there is no list of widths that anyone has posted up here , or anywhere else that I've seen, so hitting the junkyard or auto parts store with a tape measure is where you will be starting..Make sure the rack goes the right direction for where you want to mount it and the input shaft will clear the frame.

You may have better luck with a short rack, mounting it in the front. IIRC the 59 is a front steer car to begin with, so there will be less clearance issues with that one.


There are a couple of members here who are working on R&P installations, here is a thread that has several of them conversing about rack modifications..

Oldred has a good idea with his attaching a bracket to the rack and picking up points of his own for the inner tie rod ends. Total Control does the same thing with their center mounted rack that they use in the early Mustang /Falcon based cars.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/...RCKM-01_AT.jpg

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/rack.html



Here is the results from a search I just did here on the site, I believe there are many good points made by Iceman36 and oldguy829 in those threads...


Oldguy829 wrote a really really good article and put it in the wiki about his Cavalier rack conversion.

http://crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/...r_tie_rods.jpg


Please read this wiki article :thumbup:
http://crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/...ing%22_to_Rack

Now all of that being said, I have seen a few aftermarket R&P conversions and one of the main problems besides bumpsteer still being present is that the rack design cuts down on the turning radius. Oldguy829's wiki has some solutions for that problem as well, it may work for your application.

BTW, I'm just going to ignore the "cheap" requirement that you referenced in your first post, (because if I don't there would be no post from me..) You want "cheap", find another hobby.


Hope this helps,

Mikey

glide85 03-25-2008 08:59 AM

Check out the April 2008 edition of Rod and Custom. They did a whole article on rack and pinion steering on various cars. I didn't look at it very closely but it looked like fairly good.

59 el camino 03-26-2008 07:18 PM

mikey
 
Mikey.............. you are an idiot. If this where the hot rod hobby is headed we are doomed. Take your checkbook and buy wall art. I am an ASE certified master tech., L-1 certified, HUNTER alignment certified, semi retired hot rod shop owner that respects hot rodders that can and will do something themselves. I have been building cars for more than 50 years and punks like you disgust me. If you don't understand what I have said, read the first sentence again. John

powerrodsmike 03-26-2008 08:26 PM

Sorry to hear that you are so easily upset.

I did understand your post ...As I don't know of anyone who has done the exact swap you want to do, (and I keep track of stuff like that), I did the next best thing.

I wrote a very informative post that would have given you all of the information that you needed to go and start measuring stuff in a junkyard or go to a parts house and select a rack that would fit your needs and all you can do is call me names. I currently own a street rod shop, and have worked in this industry full time for 23 years.



I never said to just go and buy parts from high dollar places, I used the pictures as examples or ways and gave you sources of information posted by people who solved the same problems that you will encounter when you try to fit a rack and pinion to your elcamino.


If you truly are an ASE master tech then you know that quality does not come cheap. Neither does good information.
If you are an alignment tech then you should have no problem undestanding the information that you were given.

Later, Mikey

Centerline 03-26-2008 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59 el camino
Mikey.............. you are an idiot. ............... I have been building cars for more than 50 years and punks like you disgust me..........

First warning. Do NOT use derogatory terms when addressing another board member. The terms idiot and punk are not acceptable unless you are referring to a third party, not another member.

machine shop tom 03-27-2008 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59 el camino
Mikey.............. you are an idiot. If this where the hot rod hobby is headed we are doomed. Take your checkbook and buy wall art. I am an ASE certified master tech., L-1 certified, HUNTER alignment certified, semi retired hot rod shop owner that respects hot rodders that can and will do something themselves. I have been building cars for more than 50 years and punks like you disgust me. If you don't understand what I have said, read the first sentence again. John

I would suggest strongly that if you continue to have this kind of attitude towards someone who is sincerely trying to help you (and others who are reading this thread) you take it elsewhere. We neither need it or want it here.

BTW, I never read in any of my ASE certifications that I could use my certifications as basis for being a ....... well, you can fill in the blank.

tom

NAIRB 03-27-2008 06:54 PM

Doing your homework on a rack and pinion installation is mandatory!!!!

Powerrodsmike illustration from Longacre is right on the money. The inner pivot must intersect with the pivot points of the control arms. Rack travel is important in relationship to the steering arm length, or you will wind up with something that might turn like the Titanic, and just might remove a few fingers when you hit a small crack in the road.

I've been a rod tech at Speedway for a couple of years now, and some of the calls I receive are almost comical.

One of them being this:

" I mounted my Mustang rack on my straight axle, but the car steers backwards, what's going on." -------- classic!

Using a front steer rack on the back of the axle is what happened.

Last week I had a customer that tried to connect to spindles together with a solid tie rod arm on an old Chrysler independent front suspension.

Didn't work too well.

When you are playing with suspensions, it just doesn't pay to "make it fit".

You've got to spend alot of time studying suspension theory and you have to follow the rules or you will be unhappy!!!!

59 el camino 03-27-2008 09:27 PM

My apoligies about "idiot" and "punk" hotrods and hemis. As an old school rodder and builder I took offense to the crack about being cheap and needing another hobby. I was only looking to converse with other old/cheap rodders that may have performed the conversion that I am planning. We used to take pride in our abilities to make do with what we had and could modify for our needs. I still do. I feel that some other members and their father just don't understand what it is to be a hot rodder. BTW, my 59 is a front steer and the information provided,(just to make someone look smart) is completely backward.
Now my honesty and abilities are in question. My ASE certifications are current, I gave them just so everyone would know that I am not a 7.................................clerk. BTW, thanks glide 85. Thanks for the input Bryan59EC. BTW mike, ignore the cheap and don't reply . John

powerrodsmike 03-28-2008 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59 el camino
My apoligies about "idiot" and "punk" hotrods and hemis. As an old school rodder and builder I took offense to the crack about being cheap and needing another hobby. I was only looking to converse with other old/cheap rodders that may have performed the conversion that I am planning. We used to take pride in our abilities to make do with what we had and could modify for our needs. I still do. I feel that some other members and their father just don't understand what it is to be a hot rodder. BTW, my 59 is a front steer and the information provided,(just to make someone look smart) is completely backward.
BTW mike, ignore the cheap and don't reply . John


Sorry about the "cheap comment. I hear "cheap" way too much in this business, and it usually means that someone wants something for nothing. When you are talking about brakes or steering, it is not ok to be cheap. You can put yourself and others in danger by cheaping out and or not doing your homework about a swap like that. I see the results of "cheap", poorly thought out or just guessed at modifications on an almost daily basis, and it always costs more to fix than the original modification did.


You can't pick who responds to posts in a public forum, but please feel free to ignore my post.
I'll reply for others who may come upon this thread. In your user control panel there is an option that will let you put all of my posts in a special category called "ignore"..Just copy and paste my name in the box and you will not have to see my posts..















Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerrodsmike
You may have better luck with a short rack, mounting it in the front. IIRC the 59 is a front steer car to begin with, so there will be less clearance issues with that one.

That was from my first post.
I'm sorry you don't seem to understand what is involved in doing a rack conversion, as all of the information shown to you applies. All you need to do is fill in the blanks with your specific dimensions, directional requirements , and find a rack that fits them with the shaft in a position that will allow clearance past or through your crossmember and will have provisions for mounting that are proximal to your existing structures.
I am also sorry that you are not willing to venture forth on your own with this project, armed with that knowledge.. That is what an old school rodder would do.

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. Some of you will understand why I put that quote there.


Later, mikey

59 wagon man 06-29-2010 08:49 PM

rather then start a new thread and have people tell me to go search i am asking if anyone has any updates on a r & p setup for a 59 chevy


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