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Old 09-28-2007, 08:24 AM
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60s Ignition ? Won't Start

One of my friends has a early 60 El Camino with a starting problem. Lots of nonstock stuff has been done to this driver. He added a block type resister to it trying to get it to go. He ran a voltmeter to the coil and has 4 volts with switch on. No start but the Car starts and runs fine with a 12 volt wire battery to coil.

Another helpful advisor opinioned that there was probably a voltage reduction wire mid 60s that replaced the resister block in the car and the "double reduction" accounts for the drop from 12 to 4. Does a voltage reduction wire exist? news to me? I'm guessing there is a reduction wire because my 57 has the resister block and I haven't seen one on a 60s.

The car doesn't have a second wire off the run side of the starter solinoid, so its probably been starting on 6 Volts since it received its last ignition doctoring.

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Old 09-28-2007, 09:02 AM
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what?
what kind of ignition does it have?
you need 12 volts to the coil when the key is on.
i have no idea what your talking about when you say nonstock stuff.
i'm
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:39 AM
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Another helpful advisor opinioned that there was probably a voltage reduction wire mid 60s that replaced the resister block in the car and the "double reduction" accounts for the drop from 12 to 4.

sounds right

Does a voltage reduction wire exist?

yes- allot of old Chevys (early 60's?-74) had a resistance wire that provides reduced voltage to the coil in when the key is in the "on" position

news to me? I'm guessing there is a reduction wire because my 57 has the resister block and I haven't seen one on a 60s.

The car doesn't have a second wire off the run side of the starter solinoid, so its probably been starting on 6 Volts since it received its last ignition doctoring.
[/I]

You do NOT want 12 Volts to the ignition coil with a breaker point system when running. The points will wear away faster- hence the need for a drop in voltage from a resistance wire when running.
However, 12 volts is needed at the coil when cranking for the extra "oomph" to start up the engine.
suggest you find a wiring diagram for the Elky
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Old 09-28-2007, 11:03 AM
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The stock resistance wire will have a fabric covering instead of being coated I believe. Also the I terminal on the solonoid should be connected to the positive terminal of the coil this gives 12 volts when cranking only for easier starts.You want 8-9 volts at the coil at idle.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:12 PM
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Hi,
If the car already has a bunch of non stock
items on it, then your not going for the all stock
show car thing,
So why haven't you changed that points system to
a High Energy GM unit? it would no doubt eliminate
you problem, & you can change them over in about
the same amount of time it takes to do a tune-up.
Good luck,
rich
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:36 PM
F&J F&J is offline
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If you want to keep the points but don't want to put a resistor wire or resistor on it, you can buy an internal resistor coil. VW old style beetles used them.

I've got 2 old chevys here for many years now; one with points and one is HEI, and I can't tell the difference at all.
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Old 09-28-2007, 03:41 PM
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Quote: "I'm guessing there is a reduction wire because my 57 has the resister block and I haven't seen one on a 60s."
.
Early points ignitions used the external resistor like you say your 57 has. In that case, there would be a wire from the starter solenoid to the coil so you would have 12 volts for starting.
.
Quote: "Does a voltage reduction wire exist?"
.
Yes. Later they did away with the external resistor and replaced it with a resistor wire. Since the resistor wire would provide 12 volts when first getting voltage to it, and then as the wire heated up, the resistance would become effective, and the wire would cut the voltage back to the proper amount for running. Hence, no longer a reason for the wire from the starter to the coil.
.
Quote from F&J: "you can buy an internal resistor coil."
.
This coil was brought into being, I beleive, so that you could replace your coil and not have to use either the external resistor or a resistor wire.
JA
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:10 PM
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I agree with the 3rd. Best place for points is the trash. I would either get a conversion unit that replaces the points assembly and still uses the same distributor or convert it to a HEI. When you can run a HEI and there is no maintanance along with much easier starting, you come to the conclusion real quick points aren`t worth the hassle.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:22 PM
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It should be easy enough to tell whether the wire has "built-in" resistance ... just measure the voltage at the end of the wire.

I'll second (or third) the suggestion to just swap to HEI and run a 12V (un-resisted) wire. Simple, easy, quick AND it will run better, longer.
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:01 AM
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I agree if originality is not a concern go hei and don't look back.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:42 PM
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Thanks for confirmation and advice

The "Elky" came with a HEI and the owner had a running problem some years ago and switched out to a points distributor that he had in the spare parts pile. He understands points but not HEI. I will pass along the resistor wire confirmation as well as the don't try to run constantly on 12 volts. Thanks
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Old 09-29-2007, 07:24 PM
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I don`t quite understand how anyone cannot understand a HEI? 4 maybe 5 max total parts that can go wrong with it?
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Old 09-29-2007, 07:54 PM
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59-60 Chevrolet (except hi perf 348) did have a resistance wire.-----Dump it and go with an hei.
Get an ignition switch for a 64 Impala and you can add an accessory poition to the switch.

HEI is 12vdc at all times and real easy to hook up---If you opt to not get a later ignition switch, you can just splice in a 10ga wire to the "run" side of the switch, to the HEI "batt". At the starter, run a (use a yellow) wire from the "ign" post on the solenoid to the "batt" position on the HEI.

Will probably have to splice the the yellow wire immediately before the HEI, as there is only one place for the 12volt input.

Bryan
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
I don`t quite understand how anyone cannot understand a HEI? 4 maybe 5 max total parts that can go wrong with it?
I agree. HEI is a very simple system, and parts are stocked EVERYWHERE.
Points are now a "special-order" item at most parts stores in this area.

About the ONLY advantage that I can think of with points is that they are entirely a mechanical device.

If the engine stops on the side of the road, you MIGHT be able to get it running again using a pocket knife and a matchbook ... whereas with electronics, you have to start replacing components.



You might start by carring a spare ignition module ... which is the most probable component to fail. It is also easier to swap out than a set of points.



A spare rotor is not a bad thing to carry as well. If a plug wire goes bad, I have seen the spark take the path of least resistance ... right through the rotor to the distributor shaft ... burns a hole right through.
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:47 AM
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Doubleclutch,

trouble shooting a points ign has been covered a gazzillion times....here is the board "search" (link above) results:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/sear...archid=1314987

for starting only....full batt volts from the starter solonoid to the coil

at idle.....6-9 volts for points life....which is either a 1.5ohm ballast resistor or a 1.5ohm resistance wire....(a few were 2.0 ohms)

above about 2000 rpms....approx 11 volts at the coil due to the alt overpowering the resistor to be able to make a decent spark

could well be the condensor (actually a capacitor) has died...and/or the coil has died....test them with a DVM
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