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62 buick with alternator....?? hmmm.

3K views 19 replies 3 participants last post by  bullheimer 
#1 ·
so this wiring diagram shows a generator, http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/tOCMP/wiring/5765wiring diagrams/Buick/MWireBuic65_3WD-013.jpg and i have an alternator that is NOT charging. i am also missing the voltage regulator. below is a pic. i am assuming they put a three wire alternator in it but man, these terminals are so corroded. i think my horn relay is toast because the horn doesn't work. my large wire i have going to the alternator Post has no voltage to ground from it. i believe that is always hot with the key on. anyway. here i go again. if the horn relay is shot, would that affect my alternator? not to happy about all those wires just ending in outer space like that!

WOULD the same wires that go to a generator, also go to the alternator?

What possible reason would a guy have to remove regulator? i know some alternators have internal ones. do they all?
 

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#3 · (Edited)
ok thanks for that link. it has a relatively new looking alternator with a very clean and readable tank on it. i haven't looked at it because i haven't been out there with my glasses on yet. in my pic above there is also, to the left of the regulator pad, another bracket to mount something or other. any ideas? since i have the regulator pad complete with cut off wires, i know gen or alt. there definitely was a regulator there. since it's a three wire unit i can't be a one or wire or two wire unit either, with an internal regulator. nobody is saying it was installed correctly tho, i can only assume that it charged at one time.

coincidentally, i just bought this car and the new looking 2012 battery that had been working so well, just took a total and complete crap. with 40A charging it i saw like three bubbles in 20 minutes. it gave it's last gasp. man! mo $ !!!! what else? the motor is getting very hot quickly! i flushed out tons of rusty water out of it yesterday, didn't seem to help. i will do a compression test here in the next day or three to see if i might have a possible blown head gasket or something wonderful.

Tag say: Date 2006, P/N 2134011 14.76V , 83A out link to napa: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...SI-55-63-Amp-3-Wire/_/R-RSE2134011_0061454415

check out what it says. Regulator: Built in!!!!!!!!!!!! Will that MAD link tell me how to re-wire correctly? so i can check? course with a clapped out battery now... It had 11V when i was screwing around with it, but that was when it was running across the battery posts too,, so it definitely wasn't charging. dont have time to read that right now but will soon.
 
#4 · (Edited)
A 10 SI is pretty simple to wire.
Pin 1 of the 2 pin connector is the exciter wire. Generally fed through the idiot light. Voltage with key on should be at least 9 volts or so.
Pin 2 is the sense wire. generally connected to a point close to the fuse box to sense charging needs. Voltage should be battery voltage.
For a quick test you can make a jumper to go from #1 wire to the large battery stud on the back of the alternator, it should charge at ~14 volts with the engine running. The sense wire can also be connected to the large stud for testing.
Most of the 10SI's will still charge without the sense wire but I have see some that wont, probably due to cheap Chinese parts.
If it still doesnt charge you can bypass the regulator by putting a small screwdriver into the d shaped hole on the back of the alternator and shorting the little tongue that is in there to ground (alternator case)this will full field the alternator. See my photo in the header of this post. If this makes it charge your regulator is toast
 
#6 ·
the large white wire to my alt. post won't show any voltage to ground on it. the end of the large white wire goes to where the regulator used to be and is connected to a red wire with a black stripe. there are two such wires there. i have the key on when i am doing the V test. have to see where that red/bk wire is supposed to go and then check it out.

BTW my battery took a charge. left it on 40a for about two hours. it is holding at 13V after two or three days now.
 
#7 · (Edited)
also btw my alternator tested good at the auto parts store. my white wire is tied to a red/bk wire, my diagram i posted in OP shows only Red wires. one from the horn relay, a big red one, and a little red one, that goes to some kind of connector, then to instrument panel, so i am assuming idiot light. if so then they f'd up the wiring cause you said that wire should go to my exciter, not my post. if anybody has a link to a diagram for when a alternator with an internal regulator first came out, let me know. if it is at Mad, i will start searching. i still have no V at the post with my key on.

Also, looked at the back of my fuse panel, it is really oxidized. i dont see much corrosion, but it's dirty and i need to shoot it with some elec. contact cleaner i just got. And... alt is on passengers side, wiring harness there is factory.
 
#9 ·
The large post on the alternator needs to be tied directly to the positive battery post somehow. The key should not matter. It should be at least an 8 gauge wire. In a lot of vehicles that connection was done at the horn relay. Some ran through a fusible link somewhere. The link needs to be able to handle the full output of the alternator if you use one. You could also put in an inline maxifuse. A lot of guys will run it unfused but I dont recommend it. There is a lot of potential current there.

So again.
pin 1 hot with key on, usually through the alt light if you have one.
Pin 2 to all the time power close to the fuse panel.
Large stud, Hot all the time directly from battery, 8 gauge wire at least.

The only other consideration is to make sure the alternator bracket has a good ground. A lot of the GM alternators also have a threaded hole on the back that a ground can be connected to. If you do this that wire needs to be the same gauge as the one on the large stud.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Answer to one of my Q's:

he 10-SI was first used on the 1969 Corvette and on the Pontiac 400 engine in 1969 and 1970 Firebirds. Initially, it was only available in a 32-amp rating; however, by the time it became standard equipment on 1971 Pontiac and Cadillac vehicles, it was available in 37-, 55- and 63-amp ratings. Chevrolet, Buick and Oldsmobile used the 10-SI as standard equipment starting in 1973. Here is a list of donor vehicles that have used the 10-SI alternators as original equipment:

1969-'82 Corvette
1969-'70 Firebird w/400 and subsequent Pontiac models from 1971-'82
1969-'70 Chevy pickups w/big-block engines and light-duty pickups from 1971-'86
1975-'88 AMC including Eagle
1973-'82 Buick and Oldsmobile
1971-'81 Cadillac
1973-'82 Chevrolet
1973-'86 GMC light duty trucks
1972-'75 International pickups and Scout
1975-'82 Jeep

from: Delco 10-SI Alternators | Hemmings Motor News ....LOTS of Awesome info on my problem here: going from external to internal regulator.
BUT! still not telling me where i am supposed to pick up large battery power the way i'm wired up. All i can think of is buying a regulator and gutting it per Hemmings article. Right now, the juice from the idiot light on my Alt's Post, just aint cuttin it: its Zip.
 
#10 ·
i have a ceramic resistor on that wire on my truck. i forget the ohmage. how many feet of what size resistor wire does it need? i think my trucks was either 10 or 100. that white wire is pretty close to my horn relay (which i think is bad since the horn doesnt work), so that's a pretty small leap.
 
#11 ·
Which wire. There is no resistor required in any wire for the alternator. Some people will put on in the exciter wire (pin1) but it is not required. There should be nothing in the the wire for the stud.

Maybe the horn doesnt work because the feed is not there from the battery.
 
#13 · (Edited)
resistor on my trucks alternator wire goes to the F or S spade connector. i have a two wire alternator on it. If you look at the pic in my first post, you see the big white wire is just connected to a little r/bk wire that goes, i think we established, to my idiot light. there big fat red wire next to it is just hangin and bodangin. i think i will connect them together, then i have full batt power to the alt. i'm just f'ing around doing this at the moment. i should be looking at a better wiring diagram off a car with an internal reg. as i posted above.

Both the pink and yellow wires, that go to the plug in connector on the Alt, (scabbed on btw), both go to the place where the Regulator was mounted, and are capped off. I seriously doubt anybody put a One wire Alt kit in this, so i am thinking this whole internal regulated alternator/regulator removal job, was a complete hack and NEVER worked. Maybe i should go buy a new regulator and jump it out, per Hemmings link above. although they were not all that clear about it, in their description. (Some posts on the regulator diagram are not labeled.)
 
#14 · (Edited)
in a couple of these drawings and posts i see that the F and S are almost the same thing, one can jump one from the other. so i am EXTREMELY CONFUSED by the diagram i posted on the first post (which doesnt have any "3" or "4" posts on the regulator diagram), and shows the yellow wire from my alternator (ok generator) going to GROUND!!!!!!!! this MUST be something to do with a generator ONLY because if i did this on the FS connector on the alternator i would blow a fuse or WORSE.

What i could use right now is for somebody to look at the diagram in my OP and tell me which one of the terminals is 1,2,3,4. Is it just simply left to right 1-4? with yellow, (ground) being 1; Batt=2; Gen 3; and F=4?


ps23(re truck: "Terminal 1 or "R" is connected to the accessory terminal on your ignition switch through the use of a resistance wire or an inline fuse for overload protection. " from Hemmings article linked above) that's the wire with my resistor.
 
#15 · (Edited)
got a regulator, great,. Just FKING GREAT! NO Coils, NO Resistors on the back, No markings on the terminals, and NOTHING but a circuit card on the inside!!!!!! might as well have wiped my butt with that 20! NO WAY in hell to do that hemmings mod with this thing!
 
#16 · (Edited)
i found a post that the regulator just needed jumpers inside it, no mention of tearing out parts, but i already took back the regulator. i am jumping things without it.

the 10g red from the horn relay that used to go to the Reg, connected to the white 10g to the Batt post, always hot.

2 jumped to the Batt post, therefor always hot too.

1 connected at the old Reg site (Pink) to a red wire that goes to the instrument panel, has 9V on it when the key is on.

My Batt voltage is 13, and when it's running it stays at 13. so it's not charging. again, it tested good at ORileys last nite. I can't see running a ground because it just seems solidly grounded at the bracket, Nor can i see running a separate always hot wire from the relay to #2. it's got a circuit board behind the dash for all the dash lites. all the bulbs are good. but i digress....

None of my idiot lights work either. all my connectors havn't been disconnected since it was built either.
And fwiw, i reversed wires at 1 and 2 and it didn't make any diff. still 13V
 
#17 ·
even weirder, this site: Converting a Generator to an Internally Regulated Alternator - Wallace Racing, talking about Pontiacs and the 10SI, says to jump DIFFERENT terminals of the Regulator, 2 and 3; then F and 4.

if you went to Hemmings article i linked to, you might recall that it said to jump F to 3, then 2 to 4.

so two different stories. could be talking about different vehicles, i DONT know.

anyway i left it for the day as i said i hooked it up. Horn relay hot to Batt post, 2 jumped over to it and 1 from my instrument cluster. i had enuf for now.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Problem solved.

Ok, so i guess you have seen how not to take advice. T Bucket, your second post says "The only other consideration is to make sure the alternator bracket has a good ground. A lot of the GM alternators also have a threaded hole on the back that a ground can be connected to. If you do this that wire needs to be the same gauge as the one on the large stud. "

well, i didnt use 10g, just the stock yellow ground wire that was there i think is 14g, but as soon as i connected that to the fender well old regulator mounting screw...BAM FIFTEEN VOLTS brother! i should have know from my crappy grounds on my Renix Cherokee, that grounds can look good but not make any contact. case in point.... full day of frustration!!! in case your wondering that is the only connection i changed or added. i thought with all that metal to metal mounting bracketry, freshly undone and re-done, i had a decent ground. hell, i even used the alt. case as my negative measuring point and read my voltage from that, but it just wasn't good enough to make that Alt, kick in. PEACE OUT.1
 
#19 ·
Ok, so i guess you have seen how not to take advice. T Bucket, your second post says "The only other consideration is to make sure the alternator bracket has a good ground. A lot of the GM alternators also have a threaded hole on the back that a ground can be connected to. If you do this that wire needs to be the same gauge as the one on the large stud. "

well, i didnt use 10g, just the stock yellow ground wire that was there i think is 14g, but as soon as i connected that to the fender well old regulator mounting screw...BAM FIFTEEN VOLTS brother! i should have know from my crappy grounds on my Renix Cherokee, that grounds can look good but not make any contact. case in point.... full day of frustration!!! in case your wondering that is the only connection i changed or added. i thought with all that metal to metal mounting bracketry, freshly undone and re-done, i had a decent ground. hell, i even used the alt. case as my negative measuring point and read my voltage from that, but it just wasn't good enough to make that Alt, kick in. PEACE OUT.1
Make sure you either replace that ground wire or add another as it is carrying the whole load of the alternator and will burn up if under sized.
My guess is your block is not grounded well. There should be ground straps on the back of the motor that go to the firewall.
 
#20 · (Edited)
yeah, i loosed that to remove it and grind on it, but it would not come out all the way. like the nut on the other side is rusted to it. so i stopped trying to remove it and tightened it back up. i just now realized as i am typing that my carpet and matting was all removed. so i can access that and do it right. . this will end up being just like my jeep, but worse i think as every connection in everything looks somewhat corroded. you should see my fuse box!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE! i actually put a tiny grinder remnant from my drmmel tool in every fuse holder to clean out rust, and it didn't do anything at all. this thing could use all new connectors on everything. i believe they are going to be Packard 56 and 59s per my post on that issue.thx again
 
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