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Old 02-15-2013, 07:25 AM
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64 impala external regulator

Ok so the car factory I assumed was a generator car, I am switching to a one wire internal regulated alternator. I know how to hook the alternator up but do not know what to do with the stock regulator mounted on the core support and or wires to it? Sorry if this has been hashed out before but any replies would be appreciated thanks again.

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Old 02-15-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64r1 View Post
Ok so the car factory I assumed was a generator car, I am switching to a one wire internal regulated alternator. I know how to hook the alternator up but do not know what to do with the stock regulator mounted on the core support and or wires to it? Sorry if this has been hashed out before but any replies would be appreciated thanks again.
A 64 should have an externally regulated alternator, not a generator. In any case, here's how you bypass the stock regulator:



Also, DON'T use a one-wire alternator. GM is not in the habit of using unneeded wires in it's cars. The field wire to the idiot light is needed to get the regulator to charge properly at idle.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:38 AM
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wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
A 64 should have an externally regulated alternator, not a generator. In any case, here's how you bypass the stock regulator:



Also, DON'T use a one-wire alternator. GM is not in the habit of using unneeded wires in it's cars. The field wire to the idiot light is needed to get the regulator to charge properly at idle.
Thanks Joe...this is exactly why I joined...I feel I have been somewhat edified.

Ray
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:28 AM
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Thanks for the replies. So dont use a one wire alternator? excuse my ignorance but if its internally regulated and i get rid of the factory external regulator what would be the problem?
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
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If I'm correct, the 1 wire alternator won't send a signal to the light in your dash to warn you about low RP charging....so if you use a 1 wire alternator you won't know if you have a charging problem at low RPM's or not. So if this is a concern, either go to a volt gauge or maybe live with it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Joe but, that's what I got from your post.

Ray
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:59 PM
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The way I understand it.......With the 1 wire, terminal 1, exciter wire, is connected to the lg lug on the back of the alt (battery feed) either internally or externally depending on the model........at low rpm the sense wire, terminal 2, isn't picking up much of a demand on the elec system therefore the alt isn't producing much juice and terminal 1 isn't getting very excited, as the rpms increase, terminal 1 gets more juice and more excited and sends a strong sig to the alt and the alt produces more juice etc.......

The one wire works very well at, higher than idle rpms, but i haven't had good luck with them and don't use them.

with a three wire the sense wire is tied in well away from the alt and takes advantage of the long wire run to get a truer sense for the demands on the elec system and that kinda buffers how much juice the alt produces
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:27 AM
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The way I understand it.......With the 1 wire, terminal 1, exciter wire, is connected to the lg lug on the back of the alt (battery feed) either internally or externally depending on the model........at low rpm the sense wire, terminal 2, isn't picking up much of a demand on the elec system therefore the alt isn't producing much juice and terminal 1 isn't getting very excited, as the rpms increase, terminal 1 gets more juice and more excited and sends a strong sig to the alt and the alt produces more juice etc.......

The one wire works very well at, higher than idle rpms, but i haven't had good luck with them and don't use them.

with a three wire the sense wire is tied in well away from the alt and takes advantage of the long wire run to get a truer sense for the demands on the elec system and that kinda buffers how much juice the alt produces
Well EOD Guy...it sounds like you really know your shi....I mean stuff. I used to have a fairly severe mental block when it came to electrical...it was real bad...I mean it was so bad that I couldn't join two wires together with a marette, I've gotten much better but still run into situations every once in a while that baffle me (I just had to spell check marette, so I guess that block is still there). I'm currently starting on a major project on a 1st Gen Firebird and will be using a "painless wiring" kit. If I have a problem would it be OK if I use (and promise not to abuse) your apparent electrical knowledge?

Thanking you in advance.

Ray
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:04 AM
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single wire alt

i'm using a single alt on my bucket.. now i do see sometimes it will drop to 12v at idle.. no biggie cause it don't idle very much. so if u are planing on doing alot of sloooooow cruising then a 3 wire will be better..
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:59 AM
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Dang and I just bought the one wire.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:17 AM
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Dang and I just bought the one wire.
Don't feel bad...mine arrived in December for my build and I've been working with cars for a long time. I new I should have joined this site earlier...but at least I'm learning and it's better to know now than to never have known at all.

I joined this site to learn about a few areas that I knew I needed more information on. I try and read all the electrical, upholstery, engine build, paint/body and suspension threads...well just about every thread I guess...LOL...to learn. I've been in this trade and or hobby all my life and thought I knew quite a bit about it...was pleasantly surprised that I could learn so much more.

Ray
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Don't feel bad...mine arrived in December for my build and I've been working with cars for a long time. I new I should have joined this site earlier...but at least I'm learning and it's better to know now than to never have known at all.

I joined this site to learn about a few areas that I knew I needed more information on. I try and read all the electrical, upholstery, engine build, paint/body and suspension threads...well just about every thread I guess...LOL...to learn. I've been in this trade and or hobby all my life and thought I knew quite a bit about it...was pleasantly surprised that I could learn so much more.

Ray
Yea I havent posted alot but been a member for awhile but yes this site is awesome! Filled with so many smart people. I enjoy it because people do not make smart comments and genuinely like to help inform people.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:43 PM
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Your absolutely right, as I mentioned I've been in this trade my whole life, when I was in my late teens and early twenties, I had what I thought was better than average knowledge...my children came along and I had to work to support the family and all the go fast, look good stuff wasn't as big a priority. My kids grew up, left home, life got a little more comfortable and then I wanted to go fast and make cars look good again.

WOW have things changed in 30 years. Electronic controls, engineered steering components, drive-line geometry, base clear water borne paint, interiors more comfortable and stylish than many peoples homes. I always worked on cars but for the past several years I've been doing it as a hobby, a labor of love and enjoying the financial rewards paying attention to detail brings. I always kept up with the latest technology on the paint and auto body part of the trade but did I ever fall behind in everything else. Just like the difference between a good paint job and a great paint job is the attention to detail, making a car go fast is much the same thing. 35 - 40 years ago I never heard about tuning a suspension to go faster, solid lifters for street driven cars, rare in OEM form...now complete roller valve trains. If you had an 8 track in your car you where cool...now sound systems are out of control complete with televisions and GPS aren't even options on some cars...and the list could keep going on.

I still have lots to learn and I'm sure I always will...I'm just happy that there are sites like this that give me more than a heads up, the people here are actually doing it and in the majority of cases don't mind sharing their knowledge.

Ray
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:08 PM
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I rewired my 67 Camaro awhile back with the painless kit, I think it's a good kit with some reservations.....

They will not give you a complete wire diagram for any reason.
Some tricks I learned on mine......

Get a box of ziplock sandwitch bags and a sharpie, a roll of masking tape (I use blue painters tape) 1 million zip ties.

Buy some packard type 56 terminals male and female, your kit has some but the brass ones didnít crimp as well as the tinned ones I ordered. Get a good quality heavy duty crimper. If you want a complete wire diagram, draw it with with the new harness laid out on the floor, I didnít and ended up removing 3/4 s of it to draw mine.

As your remove parts and pieces put the screws in a ziplock and lebel the bag as to what they are for. Remove the instrument cluster, center console, radio, AC controls, glove box, both dvrís side front and rear seats, drivers side sill plate and the wire protector underneath it.
Unscrew the fuseblock bulkhead connector from under the hood, remove the all old wires completely before you start (except the dome light which is connected in the dvrís side trunk, wht and blk wires) I didnít thinking I might need to look at something etc...... big mistake and ended up doing it anyway.

Try and remove the harness in one piece. Label all your connectors with tape and leave them connected to the wires, you will need some of the connectors later. Be very careful with the steering column half moon connector, the kit doesnít provide one and they are almost impossible to find a new one and you will have to reuse it, cut the connector off leaving about 3 inches of wire (very helpful later when you have to insert the new wires into it) When you get to that connector...... remove one wire and then insert the new one in itís place, I removed them all and it was confusing when it came time to put the new ones in. As I went thru the different plugs it saved alot of confusion.

MOUNT the fuse block FIRST! Be very careful with the template when cutting the firewall out to fit the new block, I had to do a little welding to fix mine.....lol. As per the instructions loosely route and bundle the wires that go to a certain area (thatís where the million ties come into play).

Once you have all the wires loosely routed and you sure thatís all of them, starting at the fuse block, tuck, wire tie, and secure the wires as if thatís where they are going to stay forever, make any adjustments, then and only then cut the wire to their final length. DO NOT leave extra wireĒjust in case you need work on it laterĒ I left the extra wire and it ended up in a mess, looked like crud and I ended up re-terminating most of them.

I ran the elec fuel pump wires into the trunk, because in the near future I plan on putting a Cadillac 6.2 LSA supercharged engine.

If you have any under hood add-ons like elec fans, delay wipers, electronic speedometer, temp gauge, oil etc......... the bulkhead connector/fuse block has many unused pass thru slots (if you donít use them, they need to be sealed with RTV from the engine compartment side). The pachard 56 terminals are the correct ones to add some extra wires from the cabin to the underhood area with out drilling holes. Iíll send you the fuse block diagram, from mine, if you want, it lists each and everywire, each fuse and what it pwrs etc.....

I mounted the 70 amp maxi fuse on the radiator core support, just in front of the battery. The dome light wires in the kit, switch colors so be cafeful when you hook that circuit up (unless you removed that circuit in the beginning)

I had an issue with the parking lights ground, ended up adding another ground wire. I purchased new metal taillight sockets, removed the wire that came with them, inserted the new painless wire into the socket and fiberdisk, and soldered it to make the contact ....... no splice! Kinda did the same thing for the headlights, removed the pig tail and re-terminated it etc...... no splice!

Itís a pain to remove the bulkhead connector, but itís far easier to seal all the wires with RTV with it unplugged. I ran a new 8 gauge wire, in addition to the one supplied in the kit, from the 70 amp Maxi fuse to the bulkhead connector. I routed my pwr supply wires in front of the radiator core support, like the OEM route,,,,, but the kitís wires were not long enough to reach, so I ended up splicing in the extra length.

The whole project took 2 weekends to complete, If I had to do it again, probably 1 cause now I know what not to do.....lol
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:49 AM
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I bag and tag everything including where all the wires went to and where they came from. I draw my own diagram from the original harness and apply what I can to the new one...excellent information here, I cut and pasted the post and saved it for the future.

Thanks EOD Guy

Ray
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:42 PM
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The issue with the new harness..... it combines some OEM wires and eliminates others. It all works well, but I like to know what fuse protects what and what wires have continunity with other wires. That way later on if I need to troubleshoot I know what I've got etc......

One more important fact..... The idiot light wire to the alt doesn't have or need a diode, it just hooks straight up.

I've attached the ones for my 67 Camaro, you may be able to use parts of it. I have added a bunch of stuff so some of it will not apply.
Attached Images
File Type: bmp Dave 67 Camaro.bmp (385.3 KB, 30 views)
File Type: bmp Dave 67 Camaro 2.bmp (445.2 KB, 32 views)
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