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Old 11-07-2005, 12:31 AM
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66' AMC 327 buildup

need some help finding the spec's on this engine it's in a 66' jeep wagoneer

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Old 11-07-2005, 08:01 AM
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What kind of info are you looking for? I have an old 65 shop manual from when my dad owned a 65 Rambler Classic. Off hand I do know that it has the same bore/stroke as the 327 sbc and it has been around since the 50's. I believe the hp is somewhere around 250. The had either 9:1 for a 2V carb or 10:1 for a 4V.
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Old 11-07-2005, 10:11 AM
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For starters, there's no speed parts available, so you have to modify some. A later model AMC intake will fit but you have to make adapter plates to match the ports and make up for about an inch in width (the GEN-1 AMC, which you have, is about an inch wider between the heads than the GEN-2 and 3). BB Mopar may fit using adapters also. AMC made a cast iron 4V intake for the 327, but it's a ho-hum piece. Does mount a standard Holley carb though. For headers find something that is close to the ports and cut the flange off. Make a new flange for the 327, tweak the pipes, and weld on. You'll have to send the stock cam out to be reground, but that's no big deal.

Now for the good side! The block is heavy, weighs about the same as a Ford 390 or Chevy 396. It can be bored 0.125" (yes, 1/8"!) if necessary. Bore is 4", so finding pistons won't be to much trouble. Stroke might be the same as an SBC, but the rod length isn't, so pin height may be different. I've nvere measured to find out. It's got a forged steel crank and rods -- clean up the stock parts and it's good to go. Combined with the heavy block the thing is as bullet proof as they come! The only possible weak part is the stock cast pistons. The 4" bore makes custom forged a little cheaper. Those older cast pistons are a bit heavier and thicker than modern ones, so they hold up well. I know a couple people running 20 psi turbos with stock pistons and they haven't reported broke ones yet.

The heads are a bit restrictive because of the design, and you can't use much larger valves without having shrouding issues. Instead of bigger valves most people running one of these just clean up the ports and stick on a turbo or nitrous bottle. The stock pistons are working fine with 150 N2O shots, no one I know has pushed them further.

Nothing but a GEN-1 AMC trans will fit. Your Jeep will have an adapter ring and a TH-400 if it's an auto. That's not a standard BOP or Chevy pattern TH-400 though, it's an old Buick "nailhead" pattern trans, which is unique. The only other place you will find one (other than in a Buick or Jeep) is in things like old model Jaguars. GM sold it as a "universal" trans because the bell is shallower than other models (part of the bell is cast on the back of a nailhead). This made it easier to use adapters like the Jeep has. IIRC the adapter is cast iron and 1.5"-2" deep. If it's a stick it's an old Borg Warner pattern on the back of the bell. A T-10 will fit, as well as most 60s and early 70s Jeep and truck transmissions. Nothing slick shifting though. An AMC car bell will fit a T-10 if the Jeep bell won't. AMC used a T-85 and T-89 three speed, and the T-10 behind that engine. All three transmissions use the same pattern to bolt to the bell. A T-10 is nothing but a T-85 or T-89 (I forget which, but the 89 is strongest) with fourth replacing reverse, and reverse built into the tailshaft.

The AMC 327 was built from 1957-68 or so. It was used in AMC cars through 66, Jeep used it through 67. A few replacements were made in 68, and possibly used in early production 68 Jeeps. The AMC GEN-1 V-8 was made from 56-68 or so (as above). Started in 56 as a solid lifter 250 with 3.5" bore. The 250 was made through 1961, dropped for 62. In mid 63 a 287 (3.75" bore) version was introduced, then dropped after 66. All three (250/287/327) use the same block design (different castings for the bore, you can't bore a 250 1/2"!!). The bore size is cast into the block above the bell, just behind the right cylinder head (right where you can't see it between the head and firewall!). All three use the exact same stroke -- cranks and rods interchange. This was because of the cost to make the forged pieces. By the way, all 50s and very early 60s (61-62) engines have forged cranks because they just didn't know how to cast cranks that would take the pressure. As casting technology improved, cranks were cast as they were cheaper. AMC knew their first V-8 wasn't going to cut it later due to weight, so never bothered to develop a cast crank for it -- they developed a whole new engine instead. The forged crank tooling was already paid for, so there wasn't much cost savings for them to change.
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Old 11-07-2005, 12:04 PM
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AMC hop up

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/.../helplinks.htm

Here is a link that might help you out. If you cant find exactly what you are looking for, try contacting one of the sources listed here.
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:02 PM
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Thanks farna for the priceless info on a hard-to-get info for engine.



tom
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:36 PM
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Thank's

thank you for the very helpful info farna, so far i have gotton Reed cam's to custom build a cam for me spec's are 252 degree and 480 lift, i know it seem's a bit much but i have a 750 dual line holley vac sec carb,and have taken out the exaust crossover pipe and relocated the fuel cell to the rear and put 3'' dual flowmaster exaust with turn down's that exit infont of the rear tire. I am restoring the body and making it into a sleeper i have also installed a 4.11 detroit gear set allready was full posi. it's a real head turner a friend of mine has a 71 r/s z-28 camaro with a nice LT-1 i can take him out up to 100 mph that's all cause of my ratio mixed with it's still a jeep and 4-wheel drive. I'll problably go with some N20 i'm definatly going to bore the engine. I bought it of an old farmer in Kennesaw,GA for 75.00$ took it home and cranked it right up ( after lot's and lot's of dirt dobber nest killing LOL). It has belive it or not 106,070 original mile's on it he said he only used it to go to town for feed. Thank's for all the info hope to talk so more i will soon have some pic's of all my Jeep's and toy's
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:49 AM
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Just remember that boring does not increase power significantly compared to cost. Check piston prices before boring! I personally wouldn't go more than 0.080" over, just to be safe, but you may have a hard time finding pistons more than 0.060" over. If other makes have pistons with the right pin height, or you order custom forged, bore the engine AFTER getting the pistons. Then the shop will bore for fit.

These are tough old engines, it should respond well to the N20 as long as you don't get carried away with it. Sounds like the cam, carb, and gears really work well together! I'd go for a better intake next.

Here's the best link for AMC GEN-1 engines (1956-66 250/287/327):
http://www.frontier.net/~mystkblu/327/
Click on Intake Manifold then on AMC to Rambler adaptations (two different links). The later AMC engine bears little resemblence to the early one, but the bore centers and intake port locations on the heads are very close. The adapters aren't to difficult to have made or make yourself from 1/2" aluminum and an assortment of files.
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:39 AM
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rambler v8

AMX82,

Here's another link http://www.gatorsuperchargers.net/books/books.htm

A guy named Dick Datson has written extensively about Rambler v8's and especially about forced induction for those motors (one book is entitled "THE AMC 6/V8 PERFORMANCE ENGINE BOOK THE AMC SURVIVAL BOOK"). Farna is another invaluable resource. Try also amcforums.com, although the focus there is mostly Gen II and III motors.

We had exchanged posts a couple of weeks ago, I just bought a 65 rambler classic with a 287. My current plan is to get the 287 running while I rebuild a 327 to swap into it, so I'm very interested in whatever you find out, and how well the customizations work that you select. These motors have the reputation of responding very well to forced induction, but at this point, given my mediocre mechanical abilities, I'm leaning more towards nitrous.

Do me a favor and look out for a running/rebuildable 327 in the Atlanta area. I live outside of Jacksonville, FL and am looking for one within a reasonable distance.


Regards,

Rambler65

Last edited by ramblin65; 11-18-2005 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:04 PM
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Wow, a bunch of great info on an off the wall engine. I've got a 327 in my completely stock 65 Ambassador. As AMC ugly as they come but it sure does attract attention as they are not seen much anymore and just about everybody has a Rambler story. Hell, I was born in Kenosha and both sets of my grandparents drove Ramblers (My mothers father had a hot rod Hudson Hornet I wish I had now). My father even worked for American Motors when I was born.

Anyway, I digress. I stumbled across this thing that has spent most its whole life in a garage. Bright red with white top, 52k original miles, and just had to buy the damn thing. Now it still spends most of it's life in the garage though I did drive it from Kansas City to Albuquerque when I bought it (a boring drive with an original radio delete car).

Again I digress. This thing sounds like it has a colapsed lifter or perhaps (I think) a bad valve spring, perhaps from sitting years in someones garage without ever being turned over. I'm going to have to at least pop the valve covers to check things out before too long. I sure would hate to drop a valve.

One of the Ranbler stories I heard lately is from a guy who used to have a mid 60's 327. He told me that I should immediately change out the timing gears as the original Rambler had plastic gears for sound suppression and that he had stripped his and caused all kinds of valve damage. This engine I have, especially since I'm not interested in rodding it any, looks straightforward as to a timing gear change even though I don't have a manual. I guess I'll have to start looking for a TG set....

It's been in the back of my mind but this thread just brought the subject to the top. Maybe a good winter time project if I can find the timing gear set.
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Old 11-19-2005, 07:48 AM
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Depending on which tran you have, some use a Borg-Warner that is about the same as the old Ford Cruiso and the FMX, you can probably put the later FMX Ford up to the stock bellhousing. It most likely has a B-W since it was the heavier duty model, by switching the trans you can access a lot of better tranny parts,etc.
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:17 AM
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Ramblin Rambler

The one thing I remember best about a Rambler. One of my old girlfriends had one, and those reclining seats (ahead of their time) were fantastic at Inspiration Point and Lovers Leap. IF yours has them, what ever you do, dont get rid of them.
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Old 11-21-2005, 05:53 PM
Jeep's speed
 
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found you a 327

I live in cartersville,GA . Which is only 20 mile's north of atlanta right of interstate i-75 i found a 1967 jeep wagoneer in a old school junk yard has no # or anything but it is a rebuildable 327ci motor with a TH 400 tranny i know it's still there but i will have to get you a price that's the only other 327 i have ever laid my eye's upon , my Dad say's there as rare as hen's teeth haha . Also Farna was right about the big block dodge intake all i have to do is get someone to customize a set of 1and a half adapter and shazam i can have any intake you can get for the dodge engine now that's very very good .
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Old 11-21-2005, 06:10 PM
Jeep's speed
 
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to woodz428

I don't know if your posting in the forum you want to but most of the jeep's that i've ever seen have either had a TH 400 or a torqueflight 727,904,or 999 tranny and i had a 1971 javelin that had a 304V8 FMX tranny engine combo not to be blunt it was the crappiest tranny i ever had i still compare it to the ford tauraus tran's and if you know anything you know those sucked
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:33 PM
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rambler tranny

Ramblers came with a borg warner m10, but the problem with switching transmissions out is that ramblers of that era also came with a torque tube (drive shaft is enclosed inside this tube) so I'd have to get a donor car to provide the open driveshaft and change out the rear end as well.
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:36 PM
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327 intake

BTW you can also get an Edelbrock performer intake for the second gen amc motors (290-401) and adapt it similarly to how you have to adapt the big block dodge. That way its all AMC
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