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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badazz55
I appreciate your very informative post. What you say finally makes sense. The new panel I have is gel coated, never said it wasn't, BarryK is jumping to conclusions. I appreciate you explaining the process and helping answer my questions, instead of telling me what #corvette you have or how much money you can spend on it.
Be careful with your criticism of Barry, he knows his stuff and is very well respected on this forum. He has helped more people than I can remember. You are a fairly new member here, if you choose to stay and contribute you will learn to respect Barry's opinion. You can differ, but be respectful about it.

After all, you DID ask for advice.

Vince

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2006, 04:33 PM
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your welcome but my glas background is boat building and many moons ago

love Corvettes....hate fiberglas....

crash tech is correct, the sprayed gel coat surface will be major orange peel, so expect to do alot of sanding

I suspect I just read your question different than Barry, the new panel is fine, you need to repair old glas on the car before fitting the new panel ?
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Old 02-20-2006, 07:02 PM
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302/z28

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers hear, and don't doubt that BarryK is knowledgeable. However, if you look at both his replies to my post, the only piece of advice I see him giving is to send my part back, or go to another forum to get the answer I was looking for. He doesn't once make a suggestion about to gel or not. Am I missing something? I have gotten some good advice here and privately on this forum and appreciate the help, and BarryK, I would really like your opinion, should I gel my sanded down body with loose fibers or not. If not ,what about the areas where my new panels meet the old. Thanks
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Old 02-20-2006, 07:31 PM
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My fault, I just took it wrong, I have no excuse except physically and mentally just whored out.

Sorry.
And its bed time!
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:29 AM
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Baddazz,

"epoxy blisters", I do agree, do not put epoxy on raw/exposed glass cloth, because the epoxy is a forever flexible membrane that is a 99.999% (?) moisture/gas barrier when cured it can trap solvents/H2O/O2 in the glas voids....panel gets hot...."pop"

that's why I mentioned thin gelcoat or filler

opinion:
if you plan to drive the car, cause there is to much flex and so many stress impacts (potholes etc.) on the vette panels...I would epoxy on the 2k primer so that the epoxy/base coat/clear coat "membrane" together can expand and contract and flex, as much and as many times as possible,


footnote: the 54' Nelson just finished was supposed to be the original white (NCRS etc.), when the owner saw it totally straight ready for paint, he changed his mind to black urathane (there were like three black 54's built?)....FL sun/heat, and black paint on 52 year old degraded/porous resin cloth body....as careful as Nelson was (we all inspected it for thin spots before epoxy)......I won't be shocked by a few blisters...he did consede to single stage so repairs can be easier

Last edited by red65mustang; 02-22-2006 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 02-21-2006, 04:46 PM
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I have gotten some good advice here and privately on this forum and appreciate the help, and BarryK, I would really like your opinion, should I gel my sanded down body with loose fibers or not. If not ,what about the areas where my new panels meet the old. Thanks [/QUOTE]

-------------------------------------------------------

Your getting mixed opinions as far as the repair, all I can do is tell you how I have done it over the years and I suppose any way is right if it works.

Bad fibers sticking up, I spray one wet coat of epoxy over the whole car then I go back to the lose fibers and smooth them down with my finger.
Most important I let the first coat of epoxy set about an hour and than spray
a second wet coat.

After setting overnight I will spray those spots with 2-3 coats of polyester primer. I then hand block with 120-180 to smooth the polyester out and rarely do I need another application of the polyester primer. At this point I go to the 2K type primers for my blocking and final sanding.

There have been a couple of times in a situation where there were only one or two places on the car that instead of using the polyester I skimmed the area the next day with a glazing putty (like) icing. This was done on a 59 and a 62 about 7 and 11 years ago but I still see both cars once or twice a year at shows and no problem has shown up. However anytime I do see the cars that is the first place I look as it has always bothered me.
The present owners don't have a clue that I even did what I did.
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Old 02-21-2006, 06:45 PM
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gonna try it bee4me. i had a case of duraglass to use. with the 3 vettes i'm doing i should be out soon . the 54 will use most of it.. but then i'm just doing a mess ,not a nice vette so it should'nt matter
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Old 02-22-2006, 05:37 AM
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this gelcoat thing has been bugging me so i talked with an old friend that i painted with back in the old days. we worked at a chevy place that did lots of vettes. anyway we got to talking about regelcoating. after a while he busts out laughing at me and starts talking about oldtimers disease. he reminded me that we used gelcoat on the really busted up ones to hide all the bodywork because we used lacquer back then and everything would swell up and show. did'nt have much to work with back then. with all the products we have now i've scratched gelcoat off my list. so if it helps i would not use gelcoat unless i were doing a top flight car with lacquer. hope this helps.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:46 AM
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Thanks Red65, BarryK, Shine.....

Again thanks for the input all, its going to be a tough decision because I am still getting conflicting recommendations. Like Barry says, if it works then there is no right or wrong way.

I am going Black and like Red65 did on the '54 I am considering going single stage, as it is easy to spot repair, is a driver, and I think black looks just as good or better not clear coated (any of you see Chip Foose's black pickup they did in single stage?)

Right now I'm leaning toward 2-3 coats of gel, epoxy primer/sealer, primer surfacer, and single stage urethane. Never heard anyone say this will not work, just that it is more work. Have had several people say they have had problems with epoxy directly over raw fiberglass. I appreciate all the input, I'm going to keep my ears open. It sounds like materials have come a long way since Gel, and it probably is an old school, new school type of thing, both work, new school is easier, old school is proven. I see that a lot in my industry (construction).
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:01 AM
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i've done a lot of vettes but don't claim to be an expert. i have been contacting some of the vette restorers to find out what they are using. we're all painters here but you should go to the guys doing them for many years. they kept up with advances. i did'nt since i've been building streetrods for the last 25 years. since barry is in the paint business i listen to his opinions. i figure he has had to stay up to date to compete. but i check all the bulls in the herd before i decide. good luck.
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Old 02-22-2006, 10:15 AM
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Right now I'm leaning toward 2-3 coats of gel, epoxy primer/sealer, primer surfacer, and single stage urethane. Never heard anyone say this will not work, just that it is more work.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It will work fine.
First question I would consider is what is your experience with gel coating?
Reason I bring this up is over the years I have bought a few totaled vettes
that do it yourselfers tried to gel coat.
BWK
-__________________________________________________ __________


Have had several people say they have had problems with epoxy directly over raw fiberglass. I appreciate all the input, I'm going to keep my ears open. It sounds like materials have come a long way since Gel, and it probably is an old school, new school type of thing, both work, new school is easier, old school is proven. I see that a lot in my industry (construction). [/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Epoxy is used over fiberglass everyday in all types of business.
I'm working with a fortune 500 company now that is looking at epoxy to solve the problems they have with their fiberglass shells.
An interesting test: They beached four boats as 55 MPH as first test.
I guess thats why they pay the engineers the big bucks to total out
$300,000 of new boats???!!

When you hear things like epoxy won't stick to fiberglass reminds me of the doctor that said having sex is the same as running two miles, either he has never had sex or ran two miles.

Only time epoxy is a problem over fiberglass is if the new glass is not done gassing and at that point its a problem with any primer or paint.
BWK
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Old 02-22-2006, 12:19 PM
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footnote to my posts...just spoke with Nelson to double check my posts....

first error: 2 orders of 3 gallons!, used 51/2 gallons of Evercoat brand(formula for vettes) gelcoat @ approx $90/gal on 6 rounds of spraying and blocking (with 80 grit) using a Arturo 3.0 brand gun (which worked well but is a throwaway) to get to a no thin spots, minor featherfill lows, 2k primer

his current understanding is , "2nd choice for vette raw glas is epoxy" as Barry posted..."but I will continue to use gelcoat".....
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Old 02-22-2006, 12:49 PM
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I seen a nice 66 Vette start bubbling one year after completion that was stripped and gelcoated. It was blamed on the product, and the product manufaturer blamed it on going past it's shelf life. It was a whole lotta rework for the guy that originally did the job.
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:32 PM
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Poor guy! The cost the bodyshops quote him to redo will be unreal and the car may still never be right.

In past, I have bought a few for about half price.
Once gel coated by some one that that does not know vette work they can never be a Topflight unless you start replacing panels as the body will be straight as an arrow and thats not how they came from factory.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:18 PM
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Baddazz,

way back in the thread you mentioned Corvette Image, I know that Nelson talks with them repeatedly for tech help on gelcoat...give them a call (pretty sure they supply the Evercoat vette formula gelcoat)

I corrected "my opinion" ....2k primer then epoxy/base/clear for most flex, you want "polyester" products till you get to paint with gelcoat

good luck on the project

Last edited by red65mustang; 02-22-2006 at 03:30 PM.
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