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Old 06-05-2008, 11:48 PM
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67 Camaro -Valve Train noise after Build

I'm wondering if anybody can give me some input on this issue. I have a 1967 Camaro, with a 327/275 hp original block, that I just added an Edelbrock Hydraulic Roller cam, lifters and push rods to. For rockers, I put on some Comp Cam magnum full roller rockers with a 1.52 lift. I'm definitely more of a novice, but pulled my motor and did this build. Prior to the build, the motor was bored over .30 and ran fine. I also put on Edelbrock RPM Performer heads, Air gap intake and a Demon carb. The build seemed to go fine and after 8 months, I just got it put back together 2 weeks ago.

My problem is valve train noise. I seem to have excessive noise. It's not a clatter, but it is pretty loud and consistent throughout the valve train. It stands out quite a bit at idle, particularly with the hood up, in front of the car and while listening around the wheel wells. There was another guy on the forum last week, Guera65 (emailed him, no response), that had the exact same issue as I did. He put a video of the noise on Utube and my motor sounded just like his.

I've called Edelbrock, Summit, Comp Cams and asked everybody I know. So far, the word back is that there is more noise with a roller setup. Can anybody confirm this? Should I be concerned with valve train failure? The noise in my car seems to get worse as it warms up. Also, to set the valves, I did it when the car was cold, went to TDC, through the cylinders at firing order and set each valve with Resistance on the push rod (tightening the poly lock) and then one half turn after that. I've tried turning the polylocks an additional quarter turn and it made no difference. I then cut out an old valve cover, used oil clips and did it at operating temperature with the rocker clacking, zero lash and half turn and the didn't make a difference either. I've run my ear over the valve train with/without a valve cover and they all sound consistent on each side. Edelbrock told me today that I could turn the poly locks down a full turn, but I hesitate to do so as a old Chev buddy of mine says he never goes past three quarters that I might burn a valve.

Any input on this or anybody that has seen/been through this, I'd appreciate it.

Rmoore2225

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Old 06-06-2008, 01:36 AM
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What cam do you have/ How much lift? Are the heads & springs setup for the amount of lift you have? Coil bind on springs? Retainer to guide/seal clearance? Rockers hitting valve covers?
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:47 AM
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I had just ran into this problem with the engine I biult with the valve train ticking. I put the edlebrok rpm package on. What I found is the guides for the pushrods were off a tad causing the rocker arm to not line up withthe lifter and cause a missadjustment when adjusting the rockers.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:07 PM
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Sorry for not responding....I didnt know I had an email..Anyways...nothing has changed...I have just finished cutting the top of a valve cover and I ordered some of the clips and will do the adjustment while hot and running...Like you I dont think it will make a diff......I too have heard that its ok...Since the Block was done in Glendale (http://www.mandrengines.com/)I am going to drive it there and see what they say.....I personally think that its a rod bearing...but i could be wrong...lots a work to pull it and tear it down....so I will do all the easy stuff first...but I am at my witts end here..I will keep in touch if I find something......again sorry about not responding sooner...
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:32 PM
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Some of the things you can check.

I believe the Edelbrock RPM heads may require a +.100" pushrod.
The Pro Magnum roller rockers tend to be more noisy at idle by default.
Others, like Scorpion aluminum roller rockers are not noted to be noisy at idle.
You're not the first one.
What is the oil pressure at idle? (When hot)
If its is the hydraulic roller lifters (and lack of oil pressure) causing the noise at idle then thicker oil will help some.
If your engine block has the oil pressure port right at the front of the block just above the timing cover, compare the oil pressure at that point with the oil pressure read from the back of the block. If there is a big difference, Then the cam/lifter galleries are starving for oil at idle. Excessive lifter/bore clearance,
Excessive ignition distributor body to block clearance. Excessive crank main bearing clearance. Faulty oil filter.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:40 PM
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Hey F-BIRD,
Can you elaborate more on this....

Excessive ignition distributor body to block clearance

My distributor didnt go down all the way...just a tad of a gap between the block and the distributor hold down...I used 2 distributor gaskets to take up the slack..Could this be the problem and how do you fix...?
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:34 PM
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The lifters were the retrofit pieces for the early, non-roller block? Just a thought.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Guera
Hey F-BIRD,
Can you elaborate more on this....

Excessive ignition distributor body to block clearance

My distributor didnt go down all the way...just a tad of a gap between the block and the distributor hold down...I used 2 distributor gaskets to take up the slack..Could this be the problem and how do you fix...?
You're situation is caused by block and or cylinder head decking. You can add a shim washer under the distributor to correct.

I'm refering to something different.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:50 PM
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Block decking and head shaving have nothing to do with the distributor mounting surface/area.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:08 PM
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Check carefully for rocker-to-retainer clearance. Edelbrock recommends .100" pushrods if you are using stock rockers. I know that you are not using stock rockers, but using a roller cam adds another fly in the ointment. Check your rocker arm geometry as well.

Hydraulic rollers can be noisy simply because they are much more aggresive than most non-roller set-ups.

tom
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
Block decking and head shaving have nothing to do with the distributor mounting surface/area.
Distributor mounting surface/area, no, but proper seating of the distributor (and proper gear mesh with the cam) can certainly be affected by block and head milling.

tom
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoore2225
I'm wondering if anybody can give me some input on this issue. I have a 1967 Camaro, with a 327/275 hp original block, that I just added an Edelbrock Hydraulic Roller cam, lifters and push rods to. For rockers, I put on some Comp Cam magnum full roller rockers with a 1.52 lift. I'm definitely more of a novice, but pulled my motor and did this build. Prior to the build, the motor was bored over .30 and ran fine. I also put on Edelbrock RPM Performer heads, Air gap intake and a Demon carb. The build seemed to go fine and after 8 months, I just got it put back together 2 weeks ago.

My problem is valve train noise. I seem to have excessive noise. It's not a clatter, but it is pretty loud and consistent throughout the valve train. It stands out quite a bit at idle, particularly with the hood up, in front of the car and while listening around the wheel wells. There was another guy on the forum last week, Guera65 (emailed him, no response), that had the exact same issue as I did. He put a video of the noise on Utube and my motor sounded just like his.

I've called Edelbrock, Summit, Comp Cams and asked everybody I know. So far, the word back is that there is more noise with a roller setup. Can anybody confirm this? Should I be concerned with valve train failure? The noise in my car seems to get worse as it warms up. Also, to set the valves, I did it when the car was cold, went to TDC, through the cylinders at firing order and set each valve with Resistance on the push rod (tightening the poly lock) and then one half turn after that. I've tried turning the polylocks an additional quarter turn and it made no difference. I then cut out an old valve cover, used oil clips and did it at operating temperature with the rocker clacking, zero lash and half turn and the didn't make a difference either. I've run my ear over the valve train with/without a valve cover and they all sound consistent on each side. Edelbrock told me today that I could turn the poly locks down a full turn, but I hesitate to do so as a old Chev buddy of mine says he never goes past three quarters that I might burn a valve.

Any input on this or anybody that has seen/been through this, I'd appreciate it.

Rmoore2225
A hydraulic roller is no noiser than a hydraulic flat tappet, the point of hydraulic lifters is no valve train noise.

You made no mention of testing the contact patch between the rocker and the valve stem. While Edlebrock tries to make fool proof kits; when you mix parts as Edlebrock cam/lifters/pushrods with someone else's (Comp) rockers onto an engine that potentially has a milled deck and heads married to a valve job that sinks the valves, as all valve jobs do unless your shooting new seats and using larger valves. You get a build up of dimensions that can have the rocker mispositioned in relationship not only to the stem tip but this can get into the pushrod rubbing on the head or the rocker contacting its stud or even rubbing on the spring retainer.

The other thing I see no mention of is a cam button. A roller cam has to be restrained from fore and aft movement in its bearing bore. GM roller blocks starting in 1987 include a thrust plate. Older blocks require a thrust button with a clearance of about .003 to .007 inch between the the button head and the inside of the timing case cover.

So was this engine checked for pushrod length which establishes the relationship of the rocker to the valve stem which in turn controls the angular clearance of the pushrod to head and rocker to stud and retainer? Further, does the cam have a retainer button installed and properly adjusted?

Bogie
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
A hydraulic roller is no noiser than a hydraulic flat tappet, the point of hydraulic lifters is no valve train noise.

Bogie
The point of hydraulice lifters is no valve train adjustment.

You need to get your hearing checked, Bogie.




tom

Last edited by machine shop tom; 06-07-2008 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine shop tom
You need to get your hearing checked, Bogie.




tom
Not sure that the normal valvetrain noise level at idle is with the Edelbrock RPM Hyd roller cam but I can tell you that my Comp cams XE284H-10 flat tappet cam in my 406 SBC is definatly not quiet at idle. Runs fine, no valvetrain slop, just the fast(er) cam lift clearance ramps in this cam design make the valvetrain a bit (sometimes a good bit) louder than you'd expect from a hyd lifter valvetrain.
There is no free lunch.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:23 PM
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Does it sound as loud as this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhmr1FdgTlw
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