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Old 11-10-2008, 06:07 PM
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68 Mustang 200 6cyl Stall Problem

I have a 68 Mustang Coupe AT with a rebuilt 200 6cyl. The engine runs perfect and has over 160#s of compression +/-15. The fuel system has been renewed including fuel tank delivery system. I dont believe it is fuel but electrical? All things electrical have been replaced including the single point distributer double vacumm advance, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points, cond, solenoid, the coil is fairly new, resistance wire is 6volts on the coil + side. I dont believe it is a vapor lock problem as it's hard to cold start. Are there some other things I can check that will keep the car running with the original designed parts opposed to upgrading to a HEI sytem? I am more of a Chevy guy and know this is probably something simple but I'm stumped when it comes to FORDS. I'm open to all possiblilties or ideas if you can help? Thanks John

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Old 11-10-2008, 06:24 PM
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when does the stall happen? Tell us more... describe in detail what happens and what the conditions are when it happens... at cruise or off idle? Does it happen only when its hot? Just because its hard to start when cold has nothing to do with vapor locking. Vapor lock occurs when he fuel boils and turns to vapor in the fuel line prior to reaching the carb. Does it happen when you go to put it in gear from park or neutral? does it happen if you snap the throttle from idle to WOT in neutral or park? Are the points properly adjusted? Is the timing set where its supposed to be?
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:01 PM
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This is a wont even start problem. It sputters a little when first cranking but just doesn't seam to ignite. There is fuel pumping through the 1100 carb. When it does finally start it runs like new then all of a sudden it just dies. It doesn't run long enough to actually drive. It is much easier to start once it has warmed up. But again, the results are always the same, runs perfect , then drops off and dies, restarts and happens again. I'm concerned for the new starter from all the cranking. I have tried choking it prior to it actually dying but it does'nt recover. After it dies it starts right back up and runs great then dies again. I don't feel it is fuel as fuel is always present before and after dying. We have recently replaced the fuel pump, all filters, hoses and the carb. The points are set at .027 gap, 37 dwell, 6 BTDC. This car has never been molested or modified so everything replaced or repaired is of original design. I keep thinking it's something in the Primary wiring? The Resistance wire is in tact and puts 6 volts to the + side of coil from the starter solenoid which also is new. Is there wiring to the ign switch that could defect and cause this effect? The only thing I haven't done yet is replace the coil which is relatively new also.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:36 PM
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Mac, one of the first things I try to do when I come into posession of an older car is grind down to bare metal and replace all ground wires. Then I replace hot and ground battery cables. First things first.
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:44 PM
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Keep the posts coming! There's so much experience on this board and people willing to help - I hate to see people replace parts unnecessarily!

I'm skeptical that the coil is at fault.

Do you get a healthy looking spark off the coil when you crank right now? If you can check while someone cranks the engine that will rule out the points, coil etc. Even bumping the points open with a screwdriver (insulated handle!) should cause a solid, visible spark on the secondary side of the coil to ground, and a small but visible spark between the contacts of the points. Give it a 1/4" gap to try and jump from the high voltage side of the coil - should be no prob.

You can try running a jumper lead straight from the battery (+) to the (+) side of the coil to see how that runs, but don't do it for long, it causes a hot arc on the points. You should be getting a good, hot spark off the coil with this scenario. If it likes that there is a problem with the resistance wire / ballast resistor or switched 12V source.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:34 PM
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Thanks for the come back guys! I will be checking all electrical grounds and will try the jump wire scenario this Friday when I get back to the Stang. Does the ignition switch itself have to be grounded? Ignition switches aren't normally grounded to be effective switches that I am aware? It appears the resistance wire plugs into a 3way molded plug at the firewall on the dr side, is this where it stops? In other words it is only used in the engine compartment primary wiring that I can tell.
I will post results of my findings Friday evening 11/14/08.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:45 PM
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I don't see the ignition switch needing a ground.

TechInspector makes a good point about scraping grounds, I wonder is this engine so freshly rebuilt that the coil may be trying to ground through engine paint?

Do you have an old-school analog voltmeter - personally I prefer these when troubleshooting this stuff...
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:48 AM
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The engine paint is not an issue for grounding as they have all been scraped and cleaned first thing. I need to check the engine to firewall connection tomorrow. This is why I asked about the ign switch ground. I like the idea of a jumper lead from the start side of the solenoid for extra starting juice, if that works I think I'll have found the problem?
Really appreciate the responses, rebuilding hope for Ford with a GM guy.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:28 PM
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68 Mustang 200 6cyl Stall Problem

try another coil and condenser , i've had brand new ones that did this same problem .
hook a volt meter to that + side and read the volts , if it climbs over your 6 volts , the resistor may be bad , being wire type or the ceramic type .
causing condenser to heat up and break down .
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:13 PM
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Today I noticed that the points are hot when cranking the engine over at the solenoid terminal using a MAC remote start button when the key was in off position. I checked all grounds and am comfortable that they are properly contacting. Is it possible that the condenser is releasing a charge to the points with the ign key OFF? Obviously that would indicate a bad condenser and/or a bad coil? The condenser has been replaced twice before and this problem has reoccurred after a day of driving each time. There may be a wiring problem that I haven't found yet. I will replace the condenser and coil again tomorrow and hope that resolves this reoccurring issue? If not, I will return for further advice and trouble shooting. Thanks for your input! I still am interested in any opinions or comments for trouble shooting this problem. I check threads regularly. John
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:53 PM
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68 Mustang 200 6cyl Stall Problem

Today I noticed that the points are hot when cranking the engine over at the solenoid terminal using a MAC remote start button when the key was in off position.

SHOULD not be any fire with switch off at points , does it have the 12 volt on start up like chevy's do ?
does it run battery down ?
have you checked if points are hot all the time ?
what volts you got running and when motor is turning over by starter ?
you say it runs for a little while , check volts up till it dies .
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:12 PM
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I just talked with a specialty shop here locally and was told that there will be power at the points when cranking from the solenoid on Ford. He also suggested I measure the voltage at the pos side of coil to be around 13-14 volts while cranking. I forgot to note what the neg from coil should be? After I get it running I will be checking to see if the voltage changes at the pos side of coil just prior to the engine stalling out and dying. The puzzling part of all this is when it dies after warm up, it starts right back up and may run perfect for a full two minutes or so and then just drops off again and dies. Each time after dying it usually starts right up again then dies. This is my problem. I'm sorry to admit that my butt is being kicked by a Ford. I work swing shift and don't get a chance to test things prior to leaving for work weekdays. Fridays and Saturdays are my days off and I'm hoping to get it this weekend one way or the other! Again, the only thing I haven't changed is the condenser and coil.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:15 PM
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68 Mustang 200 6cyl Stall Problem

i'm for 9 volt max running .
does it have the ceramic resistor ?
or the wire is a resistor type .like on chevys ?
if you cut or splice the resistor wire , it's no good .
you sure it not running dry and refills carb ?
coke bottle with hole in cap and a little gas , give her a squirt on that cutting out head ache .
i keep one handy for all kinds of needs ,ants ,bon fire , grill , smoker , old car sitting for months .i like using two stroke in it , lubes up the cylinders for dry rings , plus it don't burn your face as bad , we it ignite's them bon fires , know what i mean ?.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:00 PM
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Copy that. I have an electric fuel pump from an older Honda Accord that I plan on tapping in with my fresh gas in a can to bypass the original supply. I might use my weed eater gas like you suggest? I like the idea of extra lube.
I still think it's electrical. The resistance wire is in tact and unspliced. No external ballast. I do appreciate you responses and will post test results Friday evening. It does act like a fuel problem but I can see fuel before, during and after each stall out. By stall out I mean it don't run long enough to put in gear and even attempt to drive.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:41 AM
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Do you have the ground wire in the distributor, from the breaker plate to one of the points mounting screws, installed and tight?

It almost sounds like the condenser you bought is faulty, also.

Where did you purchase the parts, and what brand did they sell you?

I recently had a customer supply a 'white box' Borg Warner ignition module for her car. It quit the very same evening of the repair. I have a module tester, it was bad, and the 'original', high dollar Borg Warner module cured it's no start problem.

Pull a spark plug, and look at the color of the porcelain insulator. White is too lean, and if it is wet the needle and seat could have something stuck in it, flooding it.

You also have to take into consideration that this is no longer a real popular carburetor. It could have been rebuilt years ago, and have the 'old' type rubber parts, that are not compatible with the newer fuel these days.

On that same note, the fuel these days is blended to lean out engines, and clean the air we breath. Try richening up the A/F mixture a little bit. You could add some propane into the air cleaner nozzle to help diagnose a fuel enrichment problem. This can be done with an unlit propane torch, and a second person cranking it over for you.

With your compression 160 +or - 15, what fuel grade are you running?

Last edited by carsavvycook; 11-14-2008 at 12:46 AM. Reason: addition
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