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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2004, 07:45 PM
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70 caddy wont charge. aaaaaaaaaaaare

this totally blows! i have had the alternator checked. by itself even. it's charging at 14 volts. in the car, it is working also. so i replaced the regulator. well it still isnt charging the battery. i have 12v or less across the battery. the engine dies when i disconnect the battery and dies after driving it a couple of miles. i took apart the wiring harness at the starter and found a bunch of melted wires. there seems to be way too many going to the Bat terminal on the solenoid. cant seem to find the post they all tie to. i have like a #12 orange that goes to the horn relay too and a #10 red bat wire there too and a black wire #10 with a red stripe all going there along with a smaller white and brown wires to the r and s terminals. i replaced all the burned up parts. i have continuity on the white from the alt. to the relay. my mech. friend says i gotta have a wire that is burned thru in the middle somewhere and if i replace it it will work. is he right or not? i still get only 12v across the bat until it starts dropping.

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Old 10-24-2004, 08:15 PM
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If the battery is good and the alternator is good, Wiring would be the thing to check. I've always hated wiring troubleshooting. At least yours sounds like an "All the time problem" It's the intermittent problems that really drive ya' nuts.
Sounds like a matter of tracing wires until the culprit is found.
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Old 10-24-2004, 08:21 PM
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You can either trace the wires or you can run new wires one at a time to see wich one is bad. Aslo i know on the older cars if the charging light is burnt out in the dash that the battery won't charge either. Just some things to consider.
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Old 10-24-2004, 08:34 PM
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fuse link

Doc here..

From your Description...You have, or have had, a massive short on the system at one point burning up the fusible link...(those melted wires should have had a link on them)

The Black/red wire should be going back to your battery.]

The orange wire should be your "Charge " line..most likely it's open going from the horn relay to the voltage regulator.

Continuity Test it from there to the voltage regulator... or there was/is a fusible link between the two (the horn relay and the regulator)that has blown..or is not hooked up.

The R Terminal is your secondary Ignition...Probably your white wire you will have to continuity test it from there to the coil power terminal to be sure...

The S Terminal on the starter is the solenoid engage line probably your brown wire (you should only read 12 volts on it when the key is in the start position)

Your Orange, Red and black/red Wire will tie together then go to a fusible link, then go to the big bolt (Battery cable) on the starter...

AFTER you get all that straight and working...check all your grounds...If you don't already have it configured this way, you may want to do so...

Run the battery ground Cable to the starter case or block area near it, and ground it with a star and lock washer..

from that same bolt, get a black battery cable with ring terminals on both ends of it instead of a ring and a clamp..(about $6 at the auto parts store), bolt it from your block ground to the frame.

From the block ground, run a #10 gauge wire to the alternator mount bolts, install yellow ring terminals and ground it.

Use stars and lock washers at all points and burnish off any paint to insure good bonding.

It sounds as if your charging system is working, just that the charge isn't getting back to the battery due to an open wire or link...

Do you have an idiot light? and does it function? come on when you turn the key on, but goes out when you start the engine?

If not, replace the bulb...some systems won't charge if the bulb is out...

Does it have an amp gauge? Does that function?

It could have a burned out shunt, cutting off the flow of charge..depending on how it's configured in the system...

So, yes, your friend was probably Correct...you just need to hook it all up and ground it good!

Doc


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Old 10-25-2004, 12:32 PM
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thanks guys, i think i just get annoyed whenever wires disappear into the firewall or wraps of tape. i was thinking the brown wire was the culprit as it was as hard as a rock. the gen light flickers.
what if the horn relay is bad? the horn does work. there is massive ground wire from the frame to the block by the starter. there was also a yellow wire that went to the "Bat" on the starter as well. i will have no choice other than start shotgunning wires since everybody is agreed there is an open somewhere. i did continuity checks but thought i was getting readings thru the alternators since they all checked out. i didnt do the orange wire tho because it didnt go to the alternator so that will be the first one i do provided it flunks my continuity check. i'll let ya know if i find out what it is.
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:11 PM
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sounds familiar

I have the same issue on my 65 tempest. I have put maybe 20' of new wire into the car and am still gaining on it. So far the biggies were getting a solid + to the coils and getting good grounds.

I now have grounds to everything from everything.
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:28 PM
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Schematic

Doc here

Here is something that may help...typical GM charge system with external regulator...

I know it say's Generator, But I think they meant Alternator...anyways the wiring will be pretty much the same..

The Horn relay will be OK if the horn works... The wire going to the regulator (hot) Wire is the one you want to check.

Doc
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Old 10-25-2004, 03:41 PM
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GM has always called their alternators Generators. Becuase they used to be generators and actually generated DC voltage. Now they generate AC voltage and it gets converted to DC. But technically GM still calls them generators.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:04 PM
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since we're on the subject, let me just say that i don't think GM can find it's *** with both hands.

also, my wiring diagram i found in a (1970) Caddy manual is alittle different as it shows a junction block at the horn relay. i have checked the white wire and it is good. the blue wire disappeared on me into a wire loom and i have yet to check it. damned sun is going down so soon now. so the orange wire is out of the equation. it, like my pos grand am, is starting to look like the...BLUE WIRE! THAT'S IT! I THINK I'VE DISCOVERED SOMETHING! BLUE WIRES CAN NOT CONDUCT ELECTRICITY!!!I bought a one wire conversion kit for my truck that i never installed.... hmmmm.... are you thinking what i'm thinking???

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Old 10-26-2004, 12:35 AM
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The Big bad Blue wire...

Doc here

The Blue wire hummmm....Ya think it's like those EXTRA nuts/Bolts That always seem to show up in the can AFTER the engine rebuild?..Ya know The ones GM throws in for Sport...How Do you think they got the AKA: General Mystery?...LOL

Maybe Blue wires are left hand Degaussed...and only will conduct electricity in southern hemispheres...Ya know, like the Bowl water going clockwise/counter clockwise depending on what hemisphere your in? LOL...

Your diagram will vary a bit ... but basically the circuit should be the same, I think on Chevy's That terminal block (and usually the fuse link) Is located next to the battery..so each division may lay it out a bit different...on the Vette, It's located Behind the drivers seat (Battery Box)and the link at the starter...go figure?

On the one wire...50% of the folks I know Swear BY them...The other 50% swear AT them...

They are easy to install, but have pitfalls...Such as overcharge/undercharge with no real way to control the rate.

Also, as the internal regulators wear out, (diode bridge leaks) They will drain the battery, just sitting over night, Almost EVERY night! and unless you had it happen to you before..You'll Go nutz chasing current drains before you catch it..

On the other hand...A hand full of bolts and an hours worth of work and your up and running again..kinda of 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another...

If it were me, I would stay with the stock lay out...The system is better, AND it will be stock...But I have lots of time and lots of good weather here to run it all down, so that's just me...

Doc
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Old 10-27-2004, 04:29 PM
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JUST another question. this car's stock battery cable had a #12 coming off the connecting positive terminal and has been cut. any idea where it went?
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Old 10-27-2004, 06:46 PM
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Wire

Doc here

Probably the regulator....or horn relay.

Continuity Check it if you can find a red 12 ga up there, It may be why your not charging.

Doc
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Old 11-01-2004, 04:20 PM
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well, i just ran a wire from the + bat post to the alternators bat terminal and so now it is charging. i'm not sure that's the way you do it but from every wiring diagram there is a wire that basically goes straight there from the battery (via the starter). so great, now that i can drive it guess what happened? the light switch decided not to turn on the headlights anymore. the parking lights and taillights all work but not the head lights high or low beam. the blue wire to the brights switch on the floor is not getting any juice from the switch, the blue wire never goes hot. great huh?
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Old 11-01-2004, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bullheimer
well, i just ran a wire from the + bat post to the alternators bat terminal and so now it is charging. i'm not sure that's the way you do it but from every wiring diagram there is a wire that basically goes straight there from the battery (via the starter). so great, now that i can drive it guess what happened? the light switch decided not to turn on the headlights anymore. the parking lights and taillights all work but not the head lights high or low beam. the blue wire to the brights switch on the floor is not getting any juice from the switch, the blue wire never goes hot. great huh?
Could be the headlight fluid iz' low.



I'm kidding....I'm Kidding.
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Old 11-08-2004, 11:10 PM
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HEADLIGHT FLUID?? WHAT THE #$%&* ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??

oh, haha, hohoho!!
hey, good one. but seriously folks....

how in FK could my switch just take a poop right when i start charging my bat??? i have park and tail lights from the same sw but the damn blue wire to the dimmer sw has no V leaving the sw.
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