700R4 fitting post 87 drum to pre 87 box - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 05-08-2005, 01:41 PM
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700R4 fitting post 87 drum to pre 87 box

Hi,
This is continued from previous Thread, after I blew the circlip grooves out of my drum. Crosley kindly stated that post 87 drum will fit IF:

>late style aluminum drums are cut different heights for snap ring grooves.
>use late snap rings, thickness is different.
>Use the late stack up of steel plates and frictions.
>use the late model forward sprag & race assembly.
>use late design Forward pressure plate

I'm hoping I can use my existing red eagle/kolene friction set as they are as-new. I want to be absolutely clear what I'm doing.

So here goes, please bear with me, please correct anything that's wrong.

forward/overrun clutch packs are same height, so Just use the later snap ring on my existing pre 87 stackup.


Should I be worried that the frictions are in a different order?

3-4 pack has extra frictions, but overall height is the same, use post 87 snap ring.



Ive noticed that the drums are different heights, anything to worry about? (i'm running beast sun shell)


Sprag and Race appear the same, later one has 28 elements & more lube holes.



Sorry for beeing so pedantic, but I want to be sure, rather than pulling it apar t again.

Thanks,
Eliot.

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Old 05-08-2005, 06:35 PM
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( I Am talking OEM setup here, yours may be different)

first foto:

Pre 87 stuff; the red frictions and kolene steels are stacked incorrectly. Kolene should not be against the top pressure plate

you will notice in the pre 87 that forward frictions, steels, top pressure plate & pressure plate against the over run frictions are different thickness from the same parts in the post 87 stack up. small pair of over run frictions are the same from pre 87 to post 87 units ( should be at least)

Forward clutch snap rings should be different thickness from pre 87 to post 87....

Use the red frictions in place of the OE frictions in post 87 stack. Adjust the clearance of the forward clutch pack IN THE DRUM. Use compressed air to check if you have it! Around .040 to .050 is good clearance.

If you have to mix or match the non kolene to kolene... it does NOT matter. The forward clutch pack is NOT a dynamic ( shifting) clutch pack. The pack is applied when the shifter is placed in "OD" or "D"



second foto: no comment, see above.

third foto:

You can install the pre 87 setup into the post 87 unit... you will need an additional kolene(8) and red friction (9)... IF the red frictions are .062 & kolene are .062. There is more room. IF the red frictions are the .078 then stack in what fits.

Base pressure plate on 3/4 pack needs to be a .125 thick plate. Not sure of metric conversion on the .125 or ?

Top pressure plate is usiually a .180 to .190 thick pressure plate... Run around .050 to .070 clearance on 3/4.


fourth foto: no comment

Fifth foto:
height difference does not matter

sixth foto:

look a little closer. post 87 is much different and sprag is larger / stronger. USe the post 87. Do NOT install the large plastic thrust washer onto the small front planetary carrier

USe the extra springs in the post 87 drum.... remove the springs from the little metal retainers.... then grind down the end that the springs extend past.

WHY you ask? This gives the 3/4 clutch pack more room to compress , so the spring retainers do not foul up the application of the 3/4 clutch.

Set these little springs in the loaded (3/4 frictions , steels installed) drum with NO top pressure plate. Check that the spring retainer is BELOW the top friction! Make sure the retainer will not foul against the top pressure plate & not allow full apply.

IF they foul or they may come up short leave them out..... if you rev the engine past 5800, I would install them if possible.
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Last edited by Crosley; 05-08-2005 at 06:49 PM. Reason: words correction
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:21 PM
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700 drum inter- change

one over looked point the drums or should I say in put shafts are orifice different in forward apply circuit. 81 to 86 used small orifice in drum to slow down forward apply oil, 87 -93 used aux valve body to apply or slow apply feel. early 700 had what most drivers would consider harsh engagement.
steels and plates will mix from unit to unit as long as you set clearance correct sprags will inter changes as long as you use correct top pressure plate and install washer on planet (early model had holes drilled in them for the washer )when needed. 3-4 clutch pack 87-92 used a stepped apply plate on bottom to increase clamp pressure on the 3-4 plates,94 up changes the lower plate all together. some late drum will not accept early forward steels. you can inter change late drum and install early shaft for early tranny.
use press to change shafts.
4l60 shafts have all large oil feed holes in lower part and feed hole at the stator shaft area
some on this may have already been covered by crosley
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Last edited by airworld2; 05-08-2005 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 05-09-2005, 03:58 PM
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Hey thanks guys, I really appreciate your expert knowledge. Been out in the shed tonight going through what you said.

I re-assembled the late drum using the frictions that came with it for practice.

Forward clutch pack was 0.030' clearance with existing plates, Fitted my red eagle frictions into the overrun/forward and got same .030 clearance - is that acceptable?
existing 3-4 clutch pack was 0.075' - I used the air line to settle the plates and seat the snap rings.

But as predicted, my 3-4 frictions are 0.062 thick - so i'm short on steels and frictions.

With regard to the springs, you are saying remove the spring and grind the metal part of the retainer so its flush with the top plate:


Thanks,
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Old 05-10-2005, 08:02 AM
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the spring retainer will bind the application of the clutch pack unless it is shorter than the height of the pack.

I would recommend at least .040 shorter on the reatainer for compression of the pack or more
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