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Old 10-02-2011, 05:14 AM
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700R4 Govenor sticking

I just rebuilt my 700r4. ( I was hoping to drive a good 1000 miles before declaring sucsess and thanking the guys who helped me, but I do appreciate what you guys do here, especially CROSLEY, TNSMITH10, and 10SCND70.) I couldn't have even diagnosed the problem without you guys, never mind attempted a rebuild.

Anyway - It worked good for about 15 minutes, then stopped shifting out of first. I pulled the govenor and found that the teeth on the plastic gear were mushed. The guy at the local tranny shop swapped it for another one that he pulled out of a jar with tranny fluid (I think). I put it in and it drove good for about 100 miles. I got off the hwy after about 30 miles, came to a stoplight and when i went to accelerate it acted like it was taking off in second gear. After the next light, it was in first gear and would not shift. I pulled the govenor and the valve was stuck. I unstuck it, sprayed it with brake cleaner and air, stuck it in some clean tranny fluid and it seemed to be moving ok. I put it back in, it shifted once into second, and that was it.. I took the gov back out and it was stuck again.

1) could there be something within the tranny making govenors go bad? I was as carefull as posible with keeping everything clean during the rebuild, but who knows.

2) what about the cap that holds the govenor in? if it was dinged a tiny bit, would that affect the govenor? (obviously it would if it was crunched in)

3) what is the best place to get one quick, this is my work truck and i really need it to run ( I am wearing out my ol' lady's toyota almost as fast as her patience)

Thanks in advance for the help Mark

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Old 10-02-2011, 06:22 AM
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If i do get a new govenor and cover (they have them at Bulkparts.com for $48.74 with cover, it says .158 thick weights, i am assuming that is the stock wieght, correct? mark
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:48 PM
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Mark,
You might want to consider dropping the pan and checking for metal. If something were misassembled, you may be shedding metal. Before we condemn the current governor, you might want to take it apart and clean it thoroughly. You can knock the roll pin out that retains the gear, and pull the valve completely out. The gear may not come off real easy, but you can usually get a thin blade screwdriver in around the weights and pry the valve down and it will push the gear off. Clean the valve and governor completely before reinstalling the valve. When reinstalling the gear, rotate it until the hole all the way through for the roll pin lines up. It it looks off, rotate the gear 180 degrees. Then reinstall your roll pin. Be careful not to nich the governor lands that contact the case. Make certain that the governor top portion is tight on the governor shaft. I've seen them loosen up there quite a bit. Also, did you reinstall a governor filter in the feed hole in the case?
Gm 700 governors are color coded. A black spot is the most common in most V-8's.
I'll check in the shop tomorrow. I'm sure I've got a good black governor there. If I do, I'll send it to you for nothing. Try cleaning your first, but if it doesn't work, we'll try a different one.

Frank
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:54 AM
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Wow Frank, that's alwfully nice of you.
I did not reinstall a govenor filter in the case; I am sure that I did not take one out. I am looking in my ATSG manual and do not see a filter there. However, what i do see is a section about how to Check Governor End Play. I never checked that when I had the thing apart. When I took out the previous governor, the teeth were mushed, but i don't think the valve was stuck. Is ther any way for end play to make the valve stick? It does'nt seem likely, and I'd hate to remove the transfer case for no reason.

The governor I have has a yellow mark at the end (directly opposite the plastic gear). Of course, this is not the Gov I pulled out.

Anyway, I will take it apart and clean it today (if I don't have to work), and put it back in, and let you know.

Thanks again, Frank.
Mark
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:04 AM
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Whoops

Quote:
Also, did you reinstall a governor filter in the feed hole in the case?
You mean one of those little cone shaped filters that went in under the valve body. Yes I did replace both of those.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:06 AM
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Was the governor that the gear was messed up on the original? Did you happen to try to pull the shaft out before taking the governor out? One reason I ask is because a 700 gear and a 350 gear are very similar, but the pitch on the teeth are different. If you mismatch them, it will "apple core" the gear.

Frank
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Was the governor that the gear was messed up on the original? Did you happen to try to pull the shaft out before taking the governor out? One reason I ask is because a 700 gear and a 350 gear are very similar, but the pitch on the teeth are different. If you mismatch them, it will "apple core" the gear.
I really don't know for sure, someone had been in the tranny before. I had only had the truck a short time before the tranny started acting funny, but it was a no second gear problem that got me to tear the thing down in the first place. When i got in there the band was toast, the reverse input drum was dished, the pump was rough under the thing with the vanes and the lube seal at the top of the input drum was in pieces. But there wasn't any metal shavings anywhere and I think the clutches and steels all looked good (of course I didn't really inpect them that much cuz I was changing them anyway).

Quote:
Did you happen to try to pull the shaft out before taking the governor out?
I honestly don't remember. But I know it looked good when I put it back in after the rebuild.


Anyway, I had just enough time in the middle of the day to break the plastic gear while driving the pin out. Even after I got the valve out past the remaining plastic part of the gear, I still needed to use a fair amount of pressure to push the valve out the rest of the way. After I cleaned it good and dipped it in clean fluid, it slides real nice.

I should have a couple hours free in the morning so I think I better drop the pan and have a look for metal. I could not see anything on the dipstick and i ran my finger in the bottom of the governor cavity and did not find any shavings there, but it seems like something has to be making that valve stick. I will let you know what i find.

Thanks again Frank
Mark
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:55 PM
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No problem, Mark. I hope we can get this thing fixed for you.

Frank
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:58 AM
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Well, I dropped the pan and sure nuff, there where some some small shavings in there. I took the tranny out last night and will take it apart today.

The only question I have right now is, how do I know if I have the right governor. Can I look at the wieghts and tell?


I'll let you know what i find. Thanks.

Mark
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:49 AM
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What is the engine/mods and rear gear ratio?

Frank
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:39 PM
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Stock 305. I am sure the gaering is stock too (being a 4wd) but don't really know what it is. I am pretty sure the tires are a couple sizes too big (265/75 r15) but I will be going a little smaller when I wear these out. I can't find the gear ratio in my haynes book. If it really matters I can pull the cover off the diff and count. I probably should change the gear oil in there anyway.
Mark
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:12 PM
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That should have a "black" governor in it...

Frank
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:37 PM
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Hey Frank, did I mention that my parking pawl clinked out of place shortly after I put the thing back on the road. It was funny because I had parked half a dozen times before that and it worked OK, then I was going down the road, heard a clink and when I stopped again I didn't have park. Thing is this happened after the first governor mushed its teeth. Also I never heard any kind of grinding or noise, but it must have been grinding because I can see the wear on the gear.

Anyway, do i have to take everything apart inside the input drum to make sure there is no metal in there?

If you still want to send me that black dotted governor, I would sure appreciate it.
Mark
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:41 PM
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Did you change the case bushing in this thing? Does the pawl move freely when moving the linkage by hand? Were the 2 retaining bolts tight? Still have the governor. Shhot me an e-mail with your address. ********@*****.com, and I'll mail it out to you.

Frank

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Old 10-06-2011, 05:28 AM
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Hey Frank:

Quote:
Did you change the case bushing in this thing?
No, but if you are talking about the bushing at the end of the extension housing, I don't think there is a bushing on a 4wd.?? or is there?

Quote:
Does the pawl move freely when moving the linkage by hand?
I've got it apart now, but I know I could move it, but as I recall it was a little clunky when moving it by hand, but it seemed to move normally when I had it back in the truck using the lever. (both before and after it popped out)

Quote:
Were the 2 retaining bolts tight?
Yes, they were still tight when I took it apart yesterday.

Thanks again Frank, I will e-mail you my address.
Mark
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