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Old 03-04-2006, 09:57 AM
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700r4 lockup??

Bought a project with a 700r4"new"(still dry) but no outside wiring for electronics hookup- bought the TCI shift kit which included all I needed- Problem-- when pulling the pan found all internal factory hookups to external plug and switches had been removed? would this indicate that a non locking converter had been installed- any way to check this short of firing it up(i'm a ways from that point) I plan for this to be a "highway driver" any thoughts on how it will perform as is or would it be best to change converter and put "the stuff" back in?

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Old 03-04-2006, 01:30 PM
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it all depends on what u want... i have my 700r4 setup with the TCC omitted, and has worked great... even been across country and back.. been in my car for 10 years now, and no trouble... got 23 mpg (highway miles) and its a inline 6 with a 500 cfm edelbrock performer carb.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:40 AM
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Thanks, think I'll try your suggestion, I'm throwing enough $ at it now
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:50 PM
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My 700r4 has the early model valve body that locks up the converter when It shifts into high gear.Yours may be set up that way.It is a common set up for older(92)700r4 hot rod conversions
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Old 03-09-2006, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLEDICK
It is a common set up for older(92)700r4 hot rod conversions
I'm really not real familiar with the control circuits for a 700, but I thought the ECM controlled TCC apply via electronic solenoid at least as far back as 86 or 87 or ?. Does the ECM not use ground speed, throttle position ect. as criteria as to when to lock the converter? Just asking so I'll know.

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Old 03-09-2006, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLEDICK
My 700r4 has the early model valve body that locks up the converter when It shifts into high gear.Yours may be set up that way.It is a common set up for older(92)700r4 hot rod conversions
EDIT: Where's the button to delete this double post?

I'm really not real familiar with the control circuits for a 700, but I thought the ECM controlled TCC apply via electronic solenoid at least as far back as 86 or 87 or ?. Does the ECM not use ground speed, throttle position ect. as criteria as to when to lock the converter? Just asking so I'll know.

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Old 03-09-2006, 07:01 AM
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Without any wires inside it sure isn't going to work electrically. There is a hydraulic modification to lock the converter without any electrical input.
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Old 03-09-2006, 07:27 AM
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check to see if there is a o'ring on the input shaft of the trans., if so, then its possible thats its setup with a checkball, if no o'ring, non lockup... if u still cant tell, is there even a l/u solenoid there? on mine, i removed it, (wasnt needed) because i installed a lube kit that goes into the pump so u dont burn up o.d.
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthcreek
Bought a project with a 700r4"new"(still dry) but no outside wiring for electronics hookup- bought the TCI shift kit which included all I needed- Problem-- when pulling the pan found all internal factory hookups to external plug and switches had been removed? would this indicate that a non locking converter had been installed- any way to check this short of firing it up(i'm a ways from that point) I plan for this to be a "highway driver" any thoughts on how it will perform as is or would it be best to change converter and put "the stuff" back in?
I have an 88 700r4 TCC solenoid with wiring harness in my lap right now. Let me know if you need it
I also have a new GM TCC apply check ball capsule.
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Old 03-10-2006, 11:17 PM
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my 89' had 4.3 w/700-r4(4l60e's came around 92'-93' i think.)the 4- pronged plug on mine went somewhere,maybe cruise set-up,no direct wires to the ecm. now for fun,my wires ran to the weird 2-plugged comp,next to the mas. cyl.,prop. valve,brake booster,just my experience
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:38 AM
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If you need a pic of how the wiring in the VB looks, here is how my '90 is set up.

Clicky here.
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Old 03-11-2006, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
If you need a pic of how the wiring in the VB looks, here is how my '90 is set up.

Clicky here.
That's identical to mine. I have the harness in my lap at the moment and the color codes match the ones in your link.
But in mine, and also yours, note there are only 3 terminals occupied in the case mounted connector. {my original wires are 18 years old so there may be tracer lines although I don't see any, but the wire colors look like brown {connector cavity 'A'}, light brown {cavity 'B'} & black {cavity 'D'}.
Cavity 'C' is unused for my application which I believe was a 88 F-body.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnsmith10
check to see if there is a o'ring on the input shaft of the trans., if so, then its possible thats its setup with a checkball, if no o'ring, non lockup... if u still cant tell, is there even a l/u solenoid there? on mine, i removed it, (wasnt needed) because i installed a lube kit that goes into the pump so u dont burn up o.d.
JMO
True. No o-ring = no lock-up for sure, and I would think if there is indeed a operational solenoid with pressure applied to that circuit, and a funtional lock-up control {whatever that includes on a 700?}, then that would create a big hydrualic leak when the TCC is commanded to apply.
What is a "lube kit" ? I have no idea, but I don't see how the converter clutch apply circuit can hold pressure in any way without that O-ring, whether there is a check ball in the IP shaft or not.

I assume by OD on your tranny, you are refering to the ratio of the output shaft in 4th gear without the converter locked since you stated that you removed the solenoid?

In my way of thinking, that check ball is designed to prevent hydraulic pressure spikes produced by the physical engagement of the TCC, or rather the retroactive physical load resistance on the fluid circuit after initial engagement. In other words, it prevents the need / dependence of the apply pressure on that TC actuator piston to be dictated by actual pump pressure in real time.
I'm no tranny expert for sure, but I built a few that were very solid, but I found that I need to ask a bunch of questions since I have built some failures also. I am posting my understanding so I can be corrected if need be, and appreciate any info anyone has to offer.

FYI:The 4l60e in my 96 TA {basically an electronic controlled 700r4 / 4l60} was equipped with a TCC check ball capsule in the end of the input shaft. When I built that tranny to operate with a 10" 3000 stall converter with 12" lock-up clutch, I omitted the check ball and re-installed the capsule. The result was a super fast converter clutch apply due to increased flow volume since there was a drastic reduction in fluid resistance created by that check ball.
Result = The TC clutch locked like a {theoretic} '1-2 shift with no 1-2 accumulator spring installed, no cushion disc, maximum hydraulic volume through the control circuit {valve body} and at line pressure from the pump' would.
That's an extremely hard apply in which no tranny will withstand for long without extremely durable hard parts and more. In my case, immediately after the apply, there was a lack of holding pressure to the TC actuator circuit because there was no check valve installed. The hydrualic pressure fed right back into the entire TCC apply circuit rather than being contained locally in the post check ball capsule area and the pump has things to do other than hold constant apply pressure on the TC apply piston. My final mods included a 13 vane pump, boost valve and several VB mods, +$1k in hard parts and installs of 2 different supposedly the best friction / steel kits and bands. The tranny is solid as a rock still today after ~ 30K miles of constant 350 HP abuse, but there is a check ball installed in the input shaft. My decision to configure my final arraingment this way had a lot to do with the fact that the 12" converter clutch lasted '4', 3rd gear, WOT TCC applies at 95 MPH
Long story short - I disagree with any recommendation to remove that check ball in order to achieve faster TCC apply time.
Okay I'm through. Sorry for the long post.
Any corrections welcome.
upthcreek, I'll try to dig up a schematic / wiring diagram for you in case you decide to run a lock-up converter.
And you can also look into the converter you have to see if it is a lock-up type. You'll need to avoid the fluid getting in your line of site by constantly tipping it or pumping it out, but there will be a machined surface in the converter that conforms to that O-ring previously mentioned that is not present in a non-LU conv. You kinda need to know what to look for, but a LU conv. is identifiable. Your local tranny shop guy can tell {I hope} if need be.
Have fun !!!
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:40 AM
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well mike, i checked the parts book (axiom) and found that it is called a tcc relief... it basically allows flow to the sections that need lube where normally it wouldve gotten from the tcc being applied. i also noticed that when i found it, it was in with the shift kits/ valve body section which is weird, because when i did the 1 in my car, it went in the pump. but im getting ready to do it again, because i just picked up another early 700R4 (27 spline) to build for the wifes 72 ventura for $100. of course the grocery list for it isnt bad, but it is still going to be a week or so b4 i can afford to get the parts i need..
and, except for the shift kit,(i put a corvette kit in mine) its going to be just like the 700 in my car. (already have a hughes converter that used to be in my car)(put higher stall in my car, which im going to swap back and put the higher stall in the wifes bacause of engine plans for the not too distant future and the fact my inline really didnt seem to like the added stall.)
so, at this point, ive got a lot of work ahead of me, no money of yet to do it, and for the 1st time against murphys law, the weather is crappy so i cant really do it right now anyways... lol usually i have time, but no money and great weather to rub it in, but its cold and rainy... cant wait for spring.

p.s. and yes mike, ur right, that checkball has got to be in the end of the input shaft.
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