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Old 01-26-2014, 03:52 AM
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700r4, new converter, feels weird

i installed a reman. dacco stock 2075 stall (B29DCLF) for a 97' s-10 4.3ltr, from auto zone, alone with new tv cable, front & rear seal, filter & gasket, in my 89' c1500 with stock 305 TBI. 3.42 gear, and 29" tires (235/75/15). it had a stock 1350 stall and been shifting fine for the last 140,000 miles. i never had to adjust tv cable, never had any trany problems at all in that 140,000 miles. i change fluid once a year, filter & gasket every 3 yrs. i average 14,000 miles a year. i can feel the new stall at take off, it wants to break the tires loose around 1800rpm. so that seems fine. i dont wanna smoke the tires, they only got 1200 miles on them. shifts all gears, up & down. tc locks & unlocks in 3rd & 4th, just as the old converter did. when i get on it, after 2000rpm, it downshifts, but as rpm goes up, ready for upshift, it seems to be "just sliding" into the next up gear. no more "lil jerk" like the old stall. new t/v cable, adjusted as instructed by "factory set", at bti site. slider all the way back, accellerater pedal to WOT, hear, & see ratchetin. butterflies are straight u & down at WOT. the old tv cable slider was about 1/2" out and seemed to be working great. the new cable slider ends up being about 2" out. tv cable is pioneer brand from o'reillys. this is my 1st 700r4 with converter upgrade. i've done alot of th350's and th400's. just feels odd, and dont wanna burn it up. after a 10 mile ride, i put an infared thermo on converter, it was 150, on pan it was 120. all of my research is leading to a tv cable adjustment. i adjusted it twice with the same results. i wanted to upgrade to the 2000 stall because im working on a carbed 355 with a lil cam to go in the old truck. any and all help, tips, advice is much appreicated. thx, rick

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Old 01-26-2014, 07:53 AM
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cnverter...

I recently upgrade the converter in my 700R4 to a 2000 stall from a 1400 stall and it doesn't slip on high RPM shift and does still shift firmly on WOT. I do have a shift kit and corvette servo though but I'm also running a very stout 406.

In your case there does seem to be something wrong. Make sure your fluid level is correct. Did you drive it easy for awhile to get all the air out of the system?

When you pull on the TV cable you should feel light resistance for the first 3 inches (aprox) travel, the last 1/2 inch of travel should be very firm. Then as you apply more pulling force the adjuster should click out. Are you feeling the firmer resistance on that last 1/2 inch?

Drive easy for 20 miles or so to purge any air...and if it doesn't firm up I'd put the old TV cable back in.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:37 AM
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i took it for another 10 mile this morning, same as yesterday. checked temps again still under 150 degrees. the tires will definalty break loose at 1800 rpm. but upshifting and down shifing is not right. i also noticed my 50 mph cruise (was 1300-1400 with old converter) is now 100-200 rpm higher in o/d with converter locked. i can feel resitance from tv cable , when disconnected at throttle body, there is a little at idle and more and more to WOT. after install i filled to full hot level started it up, let idle in park, keep checking level and adding fluid till it was stayed at full. i would say a good 10 minutes of idleing and adding fluid. put it in reverse and it died. started it back up, added more fluid, then went thur all gears with brakes on. should i have added fluid to the new converter before putting it in????? added a total of 8 qrts till it stayed full. surely that 2000 stall is not too much for this bone stock 305. thx, rick
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:00 AM
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Yes Yes you should of added about a quart or more fluid to the convertor, before you installed it. I'm just guessing, that your convertor is got some air in it and won't purge it out. Maybe someone with more tranny-convertor savy than me will jump in here and give you more advise. I've just always added atleast one quart of fluid to the convertor.. I'm wondering if since this was a new one, you should of added two quarts. I'll also wait to see what the experts answer is here.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:20 AM
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crosley will chime in.

I don't think it makes any difference.
but not sure on that
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:37 AM
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Did you pour some fluid into the converter before installing it ?
I ruined a TCI converter omitting that step.

Edit;
Oh, my question answered.....
"should i have added fluid to the new converter before putting it in?????"
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:42 PM
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I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that POS pioneer tv cable did not work. i put the old 1 back on, probly the original 1989, adjusted it 1 time. i knew after the 1st 1-2 shift it was RIGHT!!!!!!. i thought about adding some fluid to the new converter, but it was wet lookin inside. i'll do it next time. i'm glad i didnt have to buy a $1200. tranny for my $600. truck. and btw, what a difference that lil 2000 stall makes on take off. makes my 305 feel like atleast a 306 now, lol. no really, it acts just like the stock converter, unless you nail it under 2000, then you can feel the differance. i'd say 20-30 more lbs of torque. next will be a timeing chain and gear set for the 317,000 mile tired 305. thanks guys, i really appreicate your replies. take care, rick
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:13 PM
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I have a stock L35 V6 DBLF TC behind my L31 Vortec 350.

Going from teh tight stock V8 stall to the V6 stall like you did, will induce some slight, slide into the next gear feeling. COmpleteley normal, wont hurt a thing. Thats the way they work, and teh reason why GM installed the Corvette servos in the TPI Vettes and TPI Camaros from 1985 up.

I'm willing to bet that if you went back to your stock V8 stall, you would notice a firmer shift now than it did before, now that you have re-installed your original cable and re adjusted. What feels "right" to you, is actually probably overadjusted slightly. Only some WOT shifting tests can determine that. I doubt that you will burn it up misadjusted slightly the way you have it currently. All trans operation is based off of that cable though,a you know.

You should also notice the ability to apply throttle and hold it there and have the trans work through the gears with about 200 rpm of engine rpm change, until lockup, then the revs will come down.

My TBI trucks locked the TC in 2nd gear as well with the 700r4. I could select 2nd gear, and crusie at 2500rpm, and while holding the gas steady with my right foot, I could slightly hit the brake pedal with my left foot and feel teh TCC diengage and engage as the brake was actuated.

peace
Hog
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:44 PM
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uh??? i never tried L/U in second. i only hold it in third while pullin a 3500 lb boat, but boat ramp is only 5 miles away and its only 45 mph zone. man, i was hopeing i had it right. it sure seems right, but i'm no tranny expert. after old cable, reinstalled, i ran it WOT 1-2, 2-3, it shifted at 4700 on its own. it would do that before the new converter install. what would i be looking for at WOT?????? i just want it to last, its my daily driver. thx, rick
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:35 PM
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i just got back from a 100 mile ride. 45 mph stop & go, 55 mph hwy, 75 mph interstate. i like it. the little converter thinks its a big one. i've had brand name, high dollar converters that didnt work this good. they were in front of mostly th350's. but i'm really impressed with this lil one. hogg, i see that 200-300 drop after letting it shift. was 500-600 drop with old converter. normal shifts are not jerky, snapy, but you see them on the tach, feel em on your butt and watch the speedo climb. it likes to normal shift 1-2, 2-3, around 2200-2300 rpm then falls to 1500 in O/D converter locked at 50 mph. but it will shift higher if i need it too. best dam $150. i could have spent on a converter. i think im gonna leave that tv cable where its at. now i only need more motor and more gear, lol. thx again, take care , rick
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:53 AM
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Question, isn't that little 4.3 convertor the same as the other convertor but with more stall.? Is the convertor smaller in diamerter and higher in stall? The reason i ask, is i never payed any attention to the convertor on the v-6 motors that used the 200 4r tranny, compared to the trannys used on v-8.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:36 PM
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Its a 12" converter. here's the 1 i got from a 97' s-10 4.3 ltr. Dacco/Transmission Torque Converter (B29DCLF) | 1997 Chevrolet S10 P/U 2WD 6 Cylinders X 4.3L SFI | AutoZone.com_ here's 1 from a 95' s-10 4.3. its a 12" too. i probly could've saved a few bucks on this 1, just 50 rpm less stall. Dacco/Transmission Torque Converter (B29DBLF) | 1995 Chevrolet S10 P/U 2WD 6 Cylinders Z 4.3L TBI | AutoZone.com_ i noticed earlier 12" 4.3's are only 1650 stall.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwwl View Post
Question, isn't that little 4.3 convertor the same as the other convertor but with more stall.? Is the convertor smaller in diamerter and higher in stall? The reason i ask, is i never payed any attention to the convertor on the v-6 motors that used the 200 4r tranny, compared to the trannys used on v-8.
Here is a little ditty explaining a bit.

the V6 TC's the DBLF and the DCLF are pretty much teh same as the V8 Vette TC's, except that when used behind a V8 like all modern Vettes have it gives you some extra stall speed and will lighten up you shifts a tad. This 1 of the reasons why GM developed the "Corvete" Servo so that the while shifting taht sliding into the next gear isnt felt.

ALL ELSE EQUAL a smaller diameter TC will stall at a higher rpm than a larger diameter one, but there are so many considerations to take into account that visual insepction OTHER than reading the 4 digit alphanumeric sticker on the TC.

Speaking of V6 TC's, install a TC from a turbo car into a non-turbo car and see what happens. SLuggisg acceleration. Just like taking a V8 TC and installing it behind a V6, super tight diesel like and sluggish accel.

peace
Hog
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax_pap View Post
Its a 12" converter. here's the 1 i got from a 97' s-10 4.3 ltr. Dacco/Transmission Torque Converter (B29DCLF) | 1997 Chevrolet S10 P/U 2WD 6 Cylinders X 4.3L SFI | AutoZone.com_ here's 1 from a 95' s-10 4.3. its a 12" too. i probly could've saved a few bucks on this 1, just 50 rpm less stall. Dacco/Transmission Torque Converter (B29DBLF) | 1995 Chevrolet S10 P/U 2WD 6 Cylinders Z 4.3L TBI | AutoZone.com_ i noticed earlier 12" 4.3's are only 1650 stall.
The stall speed on that DBLF TC will actually be higher than the DCLF you have. And would provide more performance advantage over the TC you bought.
The DBLF has a stall rating or K number that is slightly higher than your DCLF. IIRC The highest V6/V8 TC is the B rating of 2025rpm.
Regardless of the K Factor, you want the stock TC that came from an engine with the lowest torque rating stock. The 1995+ trucks were the CSFI engines rpo L35's and came with higher torque ratings than the earlier TBI trucks.
The TBI truck needed more help from its TC than the higher output L35 truck did.

peace
Hog
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:11 PM
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Here's a chart with the C as the 2nd digit for K Factors
APPLICATION:

B = 250 and 350 transmission,
C = 200/200-4R, 325-4L & pre 85 700-R4
D = 85 and later 700-R4 with 30 spline input

"K" FACTOR: A= 142 = 2024 rpm
B = 140 = 1996 rpm
C = 135 = 1925 rpm
D = 130 = 1853 rpm
E = 115 = 1639 rpm
F = 110 = 1568 rpm
G = 100 = 1425 rpm
H = 97 = 1383 rpm
J = 89 = 1269 rpm
K = 85 = 1211 rpm

CLUTCH TYPE: 0 = no clutch
1 = 300 ft/lb 43 degrees travel
2 = 240 ft/lb 46 degrees travel
3 = 290 ft/lb 44 degrees travel *
4 = 160 ft/lb 37 degrees travel
5 = 220 ft/lb 35 degrees travel
6 = 195 ft/lb 42 degrees travel
7 = 195 ft/lb 30 degrees travel *
8 = 300 ft/lb 44 degrees travel
9 = 290 ft/lb 44 degrees travel #
A = 300 ft/lb 29 degrees travel
B = 300 ft/lb 44 degrees travel
C = 330 ft/lb 28 degrees travel

* poppet valve
# static open poppet valve which is normally open and closes during acceleration.

COVER STYLE:

A = Open cover (no converter clutch) 3 lugs with one weld per lug (gas)
B = Open cover (no converter clutch) 3 lugs with three welds per lug (diesel)
C = Converter clutch type, 3 lugs with one weld per lug (gas)
D = Converter clutch type, 3 lugs with 180 degree weld on each lug (diesel)
E = Converter clutch type, 6 lugs with 180 degree weld on each lug (diesel)
F = Converter clutch type, 3 lugs, 245 mm style lug.


peace
Hog
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