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-   -   700R4 rebuild with wider low reverse roller clutch (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/700r4-rebuild-wider-low-reverse-roller-clutch-170823.html)

qwkswede 01-02-2010 01:09 AM

700R4 rebuild with wider low reverse roller clutch
 
I'm starting to replace the old parts in my 700r4 with the fresh parts in my rebuild kit.

One of the first things I touched didn't seem to work right. I popped the roller assembly out of the low reverse carrier, and tried to install a new replacement one I got. The new one is wider than the old. Is this an "enhanced" part? My "kit" is a collection of higher performance parts from pro-built, and I guessed that this must be the case. But I can't get the snap ring back on with this wider part. There is only room in there for the original roller assembly.

Am I missing something here??

http://www.denverspeed.com/gallery2/...serialNumber=2

With the wider roller installed:
http://www.denverspeed.com/gallery2/...serialNumber=2

123pugsy 01-02-2010 05:30 AM

I believe the narrow is for an 82 to 86 700r4.

Is that what you are working on?

qwkswede 01-02-2010 09:07 AM

It is supposedly from a 91 corvette. And the serial numbers on the tag match that assumption. Seems wierd huh?

I was trying to figure out if it had ever been rebuilt before. The case has a layer of paint that seems pretty old and is peeling. Did they get paint at the factory?

Crosley 01-02-2010 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwkswede
It is supposedly from a 91 corvette. And the serial numbers on the tag match that assumption. Seems wierd huh?

I was trying to figure out if it had ever been rebuilt before. The case has a layer of paint that seems pretty old and is peeling. Did they get paint at the factory?


a 1991 corvette case will not have a trans mount area on the main case near the rear... 2 bolt holes normally there are NOT on a vette case.

the wide roller clutch is late design for 700r4 4l60 trans.

early narrow roller clutch is same as a t-350 design.

123pugsy 01-02-2010 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwkswede
It is supposedly from a 91 corvette. And the serial numbers on the tag match that assumption. Seems wierd huh?

I was trying to figure out if it had ever been rebuilt before. The case has a layer of paint that seems pretty old and is peeling. Did they get paint at the factory?


No paint from the factory.

qwkswede 01-02-2010 10:25 AM

It is definitely a corvette case. Thats fine with me, it is going into a volvo with a fabricated cross member. I can work with the vette style mounts. I would have preferred that tje trans was untouched and original for my first rebuild. I dont really need unexpected combos to confuse me right now. I wonder what wierd mix match parts i will find. Since it seems that someone retrofitted the th350 roller clutch assembly i assume they are interchangeable? I want the stronger one. I will do some calling to see about buying the later style carrier.

Crosley 01-02-2010 11:56 AM

I've seen many late cores with early parts inside.

the center support for the wide roller clutch will fit back in place.. you MUST watch the low-reverse clutch pack clearance.

the late design low - reverse clutch pack uses a waved plate then 5 flat steels and frictions..

there was also a thicker flat plate with 4 standard flat steel plates used with the waved cushion plate.


:cool:

qwkswede 01-02-2010 07:01 PM

Well, today I bought the later wide center support online, found an ebay auction. And I found the details of the different clutch stackups in the ATSG manual. I think I can sort that out no problem. Thanks for the help.

mmerlinn 01-02-2010 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwkswede
Well, today I bought the later wide center support online, found an ebay auction. And I found the details of the different clutch stackups in the ATSG manual. I think I can sort that out no problem. Thanks for the help.

You can't put the wider sprag in the narrow housing. You must change both.

qwkswede 01-02-2010 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=mmerlinn]You can't put the wider sprag in the narrow housing. You must change both.[/QUOTE

Yes, thats why I bought the wider center support housing. I actually got the used inner race, and a sprag too. I don't know why the narrow one was in this 1991 transmision, but I had bought parts assuming a 91 model, and was a bit confused when it had some unusual parts inside.

123pugsy 01-03-2010 05:00 AM

Like Crosley mentioned, check your clutch pack clearance.
The manual will tell you to measure the stack up and such but I found a nice tip online somewhere whereby you can use some pennys or dimes on top of the clutch pack and drop in the center support to check the clearance.

I usually do this before installing the reaction gear and carrier.

qwkswede 01-03-2010 10:23 AM

OK, there are a couple things that the ATSG guide seems to skip.

I have a dimension for the stack height of 1.200 - 1.240". But I don't see a clearance spec in the ATSG manual. Penny thickness looks to be about .060-.065". Is that about right?

Also, is soaking the frictions in ATF before assembly the recommended treatment?

And one more Q. Vaseline is appropriate for assembly lube on the bearings, bushings, and rubber parts?

S10xGN 01-03-2010 10:31 AM

Can't help you with Q #1, but yes, always soak the frictions before assembly, and buy the proper assembly lube, it's much stickier than vaseline which helps in certain circumstances...

Russ

Crosley 01-03-2010 11:39 AM

A suggestion I have used a few decades:

set the low - reverse clutch pack into the case dry... no planetary unit or other items in the way. Set it up eggzackly how it will operate in the trans. No roller clutch , no race , nothing to get in your way

Set the center support in place , look through the bottom of the case at the clearance. there is an opening there...

A long time accepted clearance for double sided frictions and flat steel plate is .010 per friction. 5 frictions would be .050 clearance.

If you have compressed air ... install the snap ring for the center support and test the apply through both ports

qwkswede 01-03-2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosley
A suggestion I have used a few decades:

set the low - reverse clutch pack into the case dry... no planetary unit or other items in the way. Set it up eggzackly how it will operate in the trans. No roller clutch , no race , nothing to get in your way

Set the center support in place , look through the bottom of the case at the clearance. there is an opening there...

A long time accepted clearance for double sided frictions and flat steel plate is .010 per friction. 5 frictions would be .050 clearance.

If you have compressed air ... install the snap ring for the center support and test the apply through both ports

Good to know.
It looks like I have about 90-100 thou clearance in the low/reverse pack looking through the slot in the bottom. I'll check it again when I get the new center support. I understand it will change. But if it doesn't I will need to find some different thickness selective plates. I'll talk to Dana at Pro-built about getting some different plates to set the clearance correctly. Is there a problem running the clutches on the loose side?

I did find another part that is interestingly misplaced. The reverse input drum matches the description of the early 1987 variety according to the manual. And the oil pump has the smaller hole size between the seals that indicates 1987 model. Wierd. The entire insides of this transmission seem to be the early style. The reverse input drum has the checkball capsule in it, and it also uses the steel piston inside.

I haven't looked at the valvebody closely yet. I wonder if I wll see some early model parts here too.


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