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Old 09-20-2013, 12:35 AM
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700R4 Speedo?

Just dropped my body back on the frame for the last time (wishful thinking) and was underneath and looking at emerg brake and shifter possibilities and noticed that tranny tailshaft housing doesn't have speedometer cable connection. Has a recepticle for a lectric plug. engine and transmission came out of '94 C1500. I remember no cable when I took it out of the P/U (couple years ago), but it didn't register at the time. Too many other considerations, so filed it to worry later. Later is here! What have I got to do to make this 700R4 tell me how fast my '39 coup is going? Was looking at some diagrams that show a couple of electrical set-ups AND a cable set up, and possibly different ratios. Does anyone have any idea what I have to do to make it work on my speedometer, or do I need to use a different speedometer or adapter ? Way over my head and need some help on this. Don't think am going to use orig '39 guages, but haven't decided dash placements yet. I better find out what's going to work first and go from there. Many thanks for any help!

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Old 09-20-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddy_1947 View Post
Just dropped my body back on the frame for the last time (wishful thinking) and was underneath and looking at emerg brake and shifter possibilities and noticed that tranny tailshaft housing doesn't have speedometer cable connection. Has a recepticle for a lectric plug. engine and transmission came out of '94 C1500. I remember no cable when I took it out of the P/U (couple years ago), but it didn't register at the time. Too many other considerations, so filed it to worry later. Later is here! What have I got to do to make this 700R4 tell me how fast my '39 coup is going? Was looking at some diagrams that show a couple of electrical set-ups AND a cable set up, and possibly different ratios. Does anyone have any idea what I have to do to make it work on my speedometer, or do I need to use a different speedometer or adapter ? Way over my head and need some help on this. Don't think am going to use orig '39 guages, but haven't decided dash placements yet. I better find out what's going to work first and go from there. Many thanks for any help!
If the trans is out of 1994 GM truck , you dont have a 700r4 , it is a 4L60E trans. Different animal on how the trans is controlled via the computer.

The out put shaft may not have the needed holes for the clip to install the early mechanical speedometer gear. Remove the round sensor from tail housing to see if there is a gear or metal disc on out put shaft. Some early 4L60E out put shafts had holes for the gear clip , not many
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:46 AM
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6 -13mm bolts on a 4l60e tail shaft an lots of wires coming out above the pan.
4- 13mm bolts on a 700r4 tail shaft an 4 or less wires coming out above the pan.
You can find the cable speedos on 87-91 Camaros that have a 700r4 in them, but you'll need the plastic gear that's on the out put shaft, but like Crowley said it may an may not have the hole for the clip.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogwater View Post
6 -13mm bolts on a 4l60e tail shaft an lots of wires coming out above the pan.
4- 13mm bolts on a 700r4 tail shaft an 4 or less wires coming out above the pan..
Early 4L60E's have 4 bolts as well.

Do some aftermarket speedo's not use electronic pulse signals?
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:57 AM
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1994 Chev P/U C1500. Has 4 bolts holding tail shaft housing and 3 wires coming out above pan. Will run the numbers again and find out zactly what I have here. Done that once but can't find where I put it (old age strikes again). Thank you all for the help. Looks like I probably need to find tranny w/speedo cable and get the driving and driven gears, and maybe the output shaft (and housing?) also. Or maybe what I was going to do at first: get a TH350. Then wouldn't hafta worry bout TV cable adaption (Q-jet), but will probably need different driveshaft. Nothing is easy, but could be worse (could be that slinky). Thanks again everybody! I can go from here. : )
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:15 PM
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Thank you Crosley, dogwater, and 123pugsy. Very helpful. Took the body back off the frame and back up on its sawhorses. Pulled the D/S and tail shaft housing (the speedometer connection kind of stuck and didn't want to force it till I know what I have.) The tail shaft has a 4 inch long smooth sleeve just behind a 2 inch diameter 1/2 inch thick 39-cog gear. Where the speedometer driven gear would be is a lectronical sensor that would be next to the sleeve thing. The diagram (PATC) calls it a 'speed sensor (internal, transmission)'. the PATC diagram also shows a (some models) inset with the speedometer driven gear going in that opening. the 39-cog gear and the sleeve appear to be part of the shaft. again I didn't try too hard to see if they are 'movable' cause I don't want to break anything at this point. There is a hole in the shaft that might be for the clip and it doesn't look like it has any function as it is. Does anybody have a idea what I need to do to replace that lectronic doodad with a speedometer gear set, or do I need to replace the shaft with maybe an earlier non-electronic version? Casting number on the case is 8663549, and the ID on the case above the pan in the back is 9FMM760C. date(?) stamp on case says 5 22 83. So, it is probably not the original transmission that came with the p/u truck I took it out of. Makes sense as bad condition the engine was in, that the tranny went first and was probably replaced. Thank you in advance for any help and/or useful suggestions.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:29 PM
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The reluctor can be pulled with a puller and a plastic speedo drive gear and clip installed in its place.

It is a separate piece.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:11 PM
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i see governor cover on the case too,

Remove the disc (reluctor) and in this photo are the parts you need to convert to mechanical speed-O. THe gear for output shaft install must be for 700r4 use, gear from a chevy T-350 is different diameter. It fits the 700 shaft, not proper diameter for speed-O driven gear:



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Old 09-22-2013, 12:32 AM
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Thank you both again. What other I'm reading on this is telling that the speed sensor (internal, transmission) is actually the controller of the shifts, and locks the torque convertor at a certain speed. The TV cable causes the shifts according to throttle position advancement. this is how I see it. 1. I don't need the VSS as I have no computer for it to feed the information to for the computer to tell the transmission to shift. 2. The transmission shifts according to position of throttle (and fluid pressures generated by speed). 3. Torque converter lock controlled by throttle valve. What do the governor do? I'm probably so far out in left field I need binoculars but need to figure this out before I break it so bad it can't be fixed. I'm actually getting great answers, but maybe overthinking them. The wire connector in the second photo is zactly how it came out of the P/U truck. nothing was actually connected to it. has a green, tan with black stripe, and the dark purple one with the tape wrapped around the end, like it might be a hot lead.
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddy_1947 View Post
1. I don't need the VSS as I have no computer for it to feed the information to for the computer to tell the transmission to shift. 2. The transmission shifts according to position of throttle (and fluid pressures generated by speed). 3. Torque converter lock controlled by throttle valve. What do the governor do? .
1. I believe what you have there may operate an after market electronic speedo. You mentioned changing the factory speedo for something different. The money spent on gears and stuff could go towards an after market electronic speedo.

Speedometer 8K Pulse Generator

2. Yes about throttle position and amount of cable pull. The governor is also involved with shift points.

3. No. Torque convertor is locked up electrically via the wire harness on the driver's side. They make a kit for this or you can get the parts you need and hook it up.

2004R / 700R4 Lockup Wiring Kit - TCIŽ Auto

For earlier units, there is a hydraulic kit available for torque convertor lockup but with the reluctor and electronic pulse sensor, I would bet you have a later unit.

You need a brake pedal switch with 2 sets of pins. One set is normally open for the brake lights and one set is normally closed for the torque convertor. A vacuum switch is also used along with the brake pedal switch.

It works like this: The power is fed to the proper wire in your harness to the lock up solenoid. The ground wire goes to the brake pedal and then (in series) thru the vacuum switch.

When you hit the gas hard, accelerating or passing or perhaps doing burnouts, the engine vacuum drops and the vac switch opens breaking the ground for the torque convertor. The same thing happens when you hit the brakes.

You'll want to hook up the lock up torque convertor. When mine locks up at 45MPH, it drops 400 RPM's.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:29 AM
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Ok, thanks, was seriously considering going and pulling that TH350, but this looks a better configuration (and I don't have to move that cross member/transmission mount again). I can leave the reluctor in, or take it out (probably take it out), and the parts aren't too steep $. One other thing: I've seen two different requirements on the TV cable vs the throttle position. One is that the cable needs to travel its whole range from idle to WOT (makes sense, to me). The other is that at idle it still should have a slight pressure on it. I've made my adapter and bracket for full range of travel (no pressure at idle) running a Rochester Qjet.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:37 PM
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Allright! Found some more material on this 4L60E and cleaned up that casing date stamp and have decided it's probably a '89. From what you all are telling me its not going to be that hard. Had driveshaft made for this configuration and will go with it. The hole for the clip is partially covered by the disc, so it will work once the disc is off. have a speedometer gear catalog and just need to do the arithmatic to figure what gears. Everything I will need is available in the market, and have the TV cable carburetor adaptor and bracket made, and will install and test for operation this week. The links you all sent had other links, and by the time I got it all printed out I had to get thicker binder. It is all starting to come together now. I've been running same TH350 in '51 coupe for 21 years. Its been on 4 different engines now and still purrs right along. Was thinking that was what I need to do for this 39 coupe, but all the info says the 4 spd w/OD is much better transmission, so am going to do what it takes to get it set up. I thank you all: Crosley, dogwater, and 123pugsy for the help and the links to the other references. I have a lot of reading to do and have to start looking for the gear sets, etc., tomorrow. Thank you again.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:20 AM
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It may be a 4L60 but it's not a 4L60e. The 4L60e came after the 700r4/4L60. On the 4L60e, the shifts are controlled by the computer, hence the "e" designation for electronic.

Another link to look at:

Bowtie Overdrives | TV Made EZ
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:59 PM
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I see. OK thanks again. got it pretty much nailed down to a '89 4L60. Have the speedo gear set coming this week. Fly'n high!
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