700r4 tv cable problem? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2011, 08:49 PM
cadmanof50s's Avatar
68 Camaro Convertible, 327 RS
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Keswick, Ontario, Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 79
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I know this is an old thread...sorry, but I have been searching the Internet for a solution to a 700r4 problem I have...and came across this post.

It appears that the member rotbox has the exact same problem that I am currently experiencing. We have virtually the same condition. I have a Holley 4160 with all the right brackets, etc. Not 100% sure if I have the correct length of cable (there are apparently 2 or three different lengths that I have found while researching). I read through all the replies, but not sure if there was a final solution.

Just to review: my TV cable will not cause any ratcheting action on the cable at WOT. Also, at WOT, there is no slack in the cable..i.e. the wire will not come out anymore (by hand) beyond WOT. So it is technically set up right....but I get late shifts.

Here are my shift points under moderate throttle ( I think they maybe a little high. All are firm shifts):

1-2 15 to 19 mph
2-3 30 to 35 mph
3-4 50 to 54 mph

rotbox - did you resolve your issue?

If need be, please send me private message or email me directly at vicbrincat@yahoo.com

P.S. this may not be relevant but, my engine is a 327 Chev (300 hp) and the Torque converter in the 700 is a 2200 to 2400 stall.

Thank you!
New member, Vic Brincat. a.k.a. cadmanof50s

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2011, 09:09 PM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,045
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 310
Thanked 91 Times in 88 Posts
you have late shifts?

adjust the TV cable to one click 'less pull' see what happens
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2011, 09:22 PM
cadmanof50s's Avatar
68 Camaro Convertible, 327 RS
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Keswick, Ontario, Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 79
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Hi Crosley, thanks for the quick reply.

Well...yes..."I think" that these are late shifts...but then again, it may be normal for this transmission. This is my first experience with the 700r4. Had one installed in place of my old Powerglide. Obviously a very different feel.

I did force it one click back towards the carb...no noticeable change. Okay... I even went a second click....afraid to go anymore as now I can pull a tiny bit (1/16") of the wire beyond WOT. And this will mess up the pressure points.

I am going to purchase another brand of cable and see if the issues is the cable itself.

I must admit I have researched this topic to death. And I just can't find the cure> maybe there isn't one. Maybe these are the shift points I have to put up with...<shrug>.

Thanks
Vic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:22 AM
Overdriv's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: IL
Age: 64
Posts: 740
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Is it a stock transmission? No shift kit, etc.

Actually, the shift points don't sound to high to me. Maybe a few MPH. What rear end do you have?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:37 AM
tnsmith10's Avatar
when will it rain???
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: where its very dry and dusty
Age: 43
Posts: 1,297
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmanof50s
Hi Crosley, thanks for the quick reply.

Well...yes..."I think" that these are late shifts...but then again, it may be normal for this transmission. This is my first experience with the 700r4. Had one installed in place of my old Powerglide. Obviously a very different feel.

I did force it one click back towards the carb...no noticeable change. Okay... I even went a second click....afraid to go anymore as now I can pull a tiny bit (1/16") of the wire beyond WOT. And this will mess up the pressure points.

I am going to purchase another brand of cable and see if the issues is the cable itself.

I must admit I have researched this topic to death. And I just can't find the cure> maybe there isn't one. Maybe these are the shift points I have to put up with...<shrug>.

Thanks
Vic

how tall are the rear tires and what gear is in the rear diff? these 2 items can play a role on shift speeds.
also, did you put a tv geometry correcter on the carb?
also, 1 more thing, if the gearing is not too tall and your rear tires arent too tall, a governor recalibration kit can help with shift points.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 07:25 AM
cadmanof50s's Avatar
68 Camaro Convertible, 327 RS
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Keswick, Ontario, Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 79
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanks for the reply, folks.

Overdriv: Apologizes for my ignorance...what is a shift kit? I did not ask for one when the transmission was rebuilt (two weeks ago). The builder told me that he was going to make the transmission "beefier" than stock. Something about additional clutches... clearly I don't understand transmissions.

It just feels like it wants to hold on to the gear longer than it should...again...maybe this IS normal.

tnsmith10: Rear end is stock 2.73 (non posi). Upgrading this winter to a Posi with 3.36. Tires are only 14 inch..estimated height 25.3". These too will be changing to 15 inch over the winter.

Did I use a geometry correction bracket..absolutely. One thing I have to tell you...when I first got the transmission, I did not use one. At that point the shifting was (IMHO), perfect. Not content to leave well enough alone I added the correction bracket based on lots of research and advice. It is after I added the Holley 20-121 correction bracket that I noticed the shifting was higher than it should be.

Just a wild stab in the dark: If (BIG IF) the builder corrected the original throttle body spring to solve Short Spring Syndrome (SSS - see URL below), would that effect the need for the correction bracket at my carb??

http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/part3.php
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 07:57 AM
tnsmith10's Avatar
when will it rain???
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: where its very dry and dusty
Age: 43
Posts: 1,297
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmanof50s
Thanks for the reply, folks.

Overdriv: Apologizes for my ignorance...what is a shift kit? I did not ask for one when the transmission was rebuilt (two weeks ago). The builder told me that he was going to make the transmission "beefier" than stock. Something about additional clutches... clearly I don't understand transmissions.

It just feels like it wants to hold on to the gear longer than it should...again...maybe this IS normal.

tnsmith10: Rear end is stock 2.73 (non posi). Upgrading this winter to a Posi with 3.36. Tires are only 14 inch..estimated height 25.3". These too will be changing to 15 inch over the winter.

Did I use a geometry correction bracket..absolutely. One thing I have to tell you...when I first got the transmission, I did not use one. At that point the shifting was (IMHO), perfect. Not content to leave well enough alone I added the correction bracket based on lots of research and advice. It is after I added the Holley 20-121 correction bracket that I noticed the shifting was higher than it should be.

Just a wild stab in the dark: If (BIG IF) the builder corrected the original throttle body spring to solve Short Spring Syndrome (SSS - see URL below), would that effect the need for the correction bracket at my carb??

http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/part3.php

another tv spring does not get included in the rebuild kits, and without knowing what kit if any was installed for shift correction/improvement, and not knowing what the origional failure to the trans was, doesnt indicate what was or what could have been done on rebuild.
even if the trans did have SSS, the 700 was still designed a certain amount of tv travel for proper shift points and timing. hence the need for the correcter.
with you having another set of gears to be installed, id wait and see what the gear change does to the shifts, and then possibly see about a governor recalibration kit at that time to get the shift points for both part throttle and WOT to your preference, as the gear change will have an effect on the shift points.
your gearing and tire size are ok, as i run a 26" tall tire myself on my car, but i had 3.08 rear gears, and after doing some governor work, all shifting issues were gone.
for some reason, this seems to be a typical problem with installing these transmissions in cars that never came with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 08:03 AM
cadmanof50s's Avatar
68 Camaro Convertible, 327 RS
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Keswick, Ontario, Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 79
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Sorry ..I could not help myself. Below is a description of another condition called Long Spring Syndrome. (From same URL as previous post).


"The other incorrect TV set up condition is what we call Long Spring Syndrome (LSS). This condition exists when the TV valve is positioned in such a way as to cause TV feed fluid to be prematurely feeding into the TV feed orifice. This condition will be influencing the transmissions control circuits even though the accelerator pedal is still in its idle position. We know of four things that will normally cause the LSS "illness".

First is when the vehicles accelerator pedal will not rotate the "carburetor linkage" to its full W.O.T. position and the accelerator pedal is then used during a factory "set" procedure to "set" the W.O.T. position.

Second cause would be a "carburetor linkage" which causes the TV cable to return a distance shorter than required to position the TV valve at its correct starting position.

Third is a TV spring that's too long which subsequently will not allow the TV valve to position correctly at the edge of the TV feed orifice.

This LSS condition rarely causes damage but can result in some very frustrating behavior. LSS causes the TV valve to be positioned in such a way as to allow TV feed fluid pressure and volume to feed into the TV feed passage before the accelerator pedal is depressed at all! This condition signals for higher line pressures and instructs the up shift control circuits to start delaying the up shift timing before the accelerator pedal is even depressed at all!
Common symptoms of LSS are late hard up shifts compared to the accelerator pedal position during light to medium throttle driving situations. Late hard shifts during light throttle driving situations gets very old in a hurry. Downshifting may occur too early and can sometimes causes "shuttling" between overdrive (4th) and 3rd gears. The transmission may produce double down shifts at inappropriate times, of example, it shifts from overdrive (4th) down to second gear (2nd) gear when a shift into third (3rd) would have been far more appropriate."


Symptoms are identical to what I am seeing...(see Cause #3). I am thinking that my transmission was built with a longer spring and as a result needed no geometry correction. But since I added one, I have effectively recreated the problem. What do you think?

Vic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 08:08 AM
cadmanof50s's Avatar
68 Camaro Convertible, 327 RS
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Keswick, Ontario, Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 79
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
tnsmith10, thanks for your response. You make a very good point.

Since I know so little about transmission, even thinking of playing with the governors and their settings gives me the shakes. But willing to take your advise. Thanks again.

Vic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2011, 04:57 AM
SSedan64's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Macon, GA.
Age: 50
Posts: 6,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 46 Times in 46 Posts
To make it even more complicated, there are more than a dozen different length TV Springs.
Your problem does sound like #3.
The Gear change should cause earlier/slower speed shifts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Transmission - Rearend posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.