83 305 4 bbl conversion to 350 w/750 edelbrock - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2012, 03:28 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
83 305 4 bbl conversion to 350 w/750 edelbrock

Looking to replace wheezy ticky 305 in an 83 camino with a built late model 350 with edelbrock 750. Wires on old 4 bbl carb for what? Want them gone...how to eliminate elect controls...or do I need some aftermarket engine control? Will I get hassled eliminating the cat on this exempt car in upstate NY? Got shorty headers with engine I'd like to use. Thanks for any pertinent advice on this swap. camino is 305/th350 with AC.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	email elky.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	57.4 KB
ID:	64520  

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 10:16 AM
Banned User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2011
Location: N.E.
Posts: 385
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
i think the wires are for the elec choke and the CCC controls to the carb which, i think, are for the metering rods and throttle position sensor. You don't need these if you are going to be switching to an edlebrock 750.

Why not stick with a non-computer Q-jet?


2) What type of distributor are you going to use? i'm not sure if you can run the CCC distributor WITHOUT the CCC carb. Or can you? Will look into this.

i have no idea on upstate ny emmissions laws and i am perplexed as to why anyone would want to live there in the first place. But that's just me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 10:50 AM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,570
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 336 Times in 333 Posts
You'd best make yourself aware of your state and federal emissions and environmental laws reguarding removing, disabling , bypassing emissions devices on your car.
You are also subject to other state and provincial (Canada) environmental-MTO/DOT laws and road side enforcement, when traveling there.

A lack of a cat(s) will get you a fine for sure and invites further looking under the hood.

There is no valid reason to eliminate the cat(s). Magnaflow/Carsound have cool hi flow hi performance cats that will support well over 400hp.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 02:49 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
making progress

hey guys,,,thanks for the responses. I appreciate the advice. I have since been able to talk with some knowledgeable mechanics and have gained some insight. I have no desire to make my car a gross polluter but then again I am just making a driver to use to and from work and don't' want to spend mass quantities of cash transforming this el camino into a respectable power making ride. I have found that I will be ok without the cats in this part of the world and have no plans to drive into other countries with it. Going to many cruise ins in the area I have seen many upgraded cars with no pollution controls on them and they seem to be able to get them inspected and registered. It has been my understanding from past articles that a properly tuned mild engine will pass any sniff test,,thus not a pollution pig. At almost 30 years old, this 83 elco is exempt from tests at any rate. when I got it the air pipes to the cat were already rotted off in more than one area and making that system ineffective anyhow. Mind you this is a 50g mile car...I guess the pollution system was a little weak to begin with. I fixed them myself as nobody but a dealer would even touch any of the pollution controls. I was hoping it would make it run properly and it almost does except for the warmed lean condition hesitation and the fact that it has no power to speak of at any temperature....the 4 barrel makes noise but that's about the extent of it. I was told that I could just disconnect that wiring and forget about it,,,,I will still be utilizing the electric choke,,,that is a separate circuit from the ones running right into the carb body. Check eng light will have to be disabled. I have scored a fresh and complete 350 that included the edelbrock carb and performer manifold already installed. It has new flat tops i can see thru the plug holes so I am confident that I have a decent engine here despite the dangers of sourcing anything from craigslist. Also had a set of sst shorty headers included so I would like to go the full hot rod route. Folding engine hoist and leveler were also part of the deal and many other new items...flywheel, mini starter, billet hei dist, pump and pulleys, alum fuel pump, cast alum bowtie valve covers, chrome goodies all over, etc...I just couldn't' pass it up for the $...whats not to like? It'll still nickel and dime me to death gathering the odds and ends as you should full well know how these things go...spent 50 today just getting header bolts and collectors which didn't get found to make the sale. Getting an exhaust system hooked up to those headers is turning into another boondoggle, do I need to add in cats to complicate it further? Local shop is talking 500 just for the parts. Now my latest concern is the th350c in there....looks to have a vacuum modulator for shifting and one 2 wire connector by the shifter...I guess it is the control for a lockup converter...I'll have to find a way to adapt that. I finally got under the thing again today and found that there was no bolts through the trans mount into the trans,,,,nice. I was wondering what the h was shifting around,,,I could feel it but the motor mounts checked out ok and nothing in the suspension looked suspect....just a tranny flopping around under there. Everybody says put a 700 r4 in there...yikes ,,,here we go again,,,does somebody think these things are free? I'm not trying to impress anybody with how much money I can spend on this car,,,I want to drive it and not have to worry about some 4g car that is now 12g or more after installing all these goodies that are so in vogue today. I have a feeling the th350 is stronger and will suit me fine...I only drive around 5g miles a year anyhow, gas mileage improvement from the 4 speed would be insignificant....besides...the th350 is lighter and we all know that lighter is better. It'll still have ****ty paint... one side looks nice from 20 ft or so.
Honestly, I wonder why I live in NY sometimes too.. other than it is were I was born and raised and where I will more than likely be planted too. Some people move away but there usually come back...there's no place like home...where ever that might be. Adirondacks right up the road, what more do you need? Adirondack Nationals forever! If its the winter you're scared of..we didn't even have one this year. Personally..I like to downhill ski too so I have everything I need right here. I did get out for the one snowfall we had worth going skiing on...my wrist is still killing me. Getting old and falling more.
Working on my 66 fairlane is so much easier...once all the rust is eliminated...almost there. Strictly old school there sorta too...390/toploader and nine inch..unbreakable. Elco will make a good parts chaser once it gets a real mans engine in there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 03:51 PM
Valkyrie5.7's Avatar
www.generationhighoutput. com
 
Last wiki edit: Painting chrome wheels
Last journal entry: Stopping my journal entries here
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix
Age: 27
Posts: 897
Wiki Edits: 15

Thanks: 147
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
FWIW, Don't use the distributor from the 305 in the 350. You can wire up a lock up converter switch via several means and a few companies sell a kit for it so you can retain the converter lock up on your th350c. Pretty common stuff, just do a little searching.

Start by searching something like "lock up converter switch th350c" in our search bar or Google. You'll find a ton of info and it keeps our regulars from having to feel like broken records.

As far as swapping in 700R4, the extra gear is nice, but without the right combo you can render your first gear useless. The 2004R has a way better gear spread for a performance car and also comes with overdrive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 04:23 PM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie5.7
FWIW, Don't use the distributor from the 305 in the 350. You can wire up a lock up converter switch via several means and a few companies sell a kit for it so you can retain the converter lock up on your th350c. Pretty common stuff, just do a little searching.

Start by searching something like "lock up converter switch th350c" in our search bar or Google. You'll find a ton of info and it keeps our regulars from having to feel like broken records.

As far as swapping in 700R4, the extra gear is nice, but without the right combo you can render your first gear useless. The 2004R has a way better gear spread for a performance car and also comes with overdrive.

NAPA Echlin TCL100 $74.09 (joe retail)

or if you prefer it in kit form ... ($240.00 -ish)


Painless #60109 for 700R4 / #60100 for 200-4R
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 05:33 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
hey, Valkyrie5.7, thanks for the reply. The engine came with a new hei distributor that I will use...that engine assembly was originally intended for 78 malibu project that never made it according to the seller. The headers should fit the elco too as I did a search and found the same application for both. Good idea on the search..I will give it shot. I did see some stuff for doing the 400r swap but when I found I had a 6 inch tailshaft and driveshaft mods were required, I decided to abandon that thought. I get so caught up in the search that I find it impossible to find what I really want sometimes and before I know it, it's time to go too bed. I am a cad designer and spend enough time on the computer all day and have little taste for it at home...unless I am having success on one of my searches,,, then I am gung ho. I only accidentally ran across this site the other day, and I am glad I did. I figured I might not get any response but you and others are definitely being helpful. I can relate to the repeating the same stuff over and over again. I have seen a million articles on doing swaps like these but never took the time to read then through as they weren't pertinent to anything I was doing,,,things have changed and I still have all those old mags... I need a clerk to find the articles for me now. If I wait a while the stories may come back around. I;m finding that the 83 camino is an outdated auto that not many carry parts for...I consider it to be a late model...guess I'm showing my age.

66GMC...thanks for the sources....I Presume those are for the 700/200r4 swaps? I'll be sticking to the th350c I think. I'll give napa a call to see if they have something for the lockup converter for me. I'm a little wary of any napa electrical stuff though,,,they do not allow returns of any electrical items.. the last I knew.. so if there's something wrong with it its your tough luck. I learned the hard way with a defective set of points many years ago and never go to them since, except as a last resort. Not that a set of points was breaking the bank...it's just the principal. I don't like to do business with people that don't stand behind what they sell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 05:48 PM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencely
...

66GMC...thanks for the sources....I Presume those are for the 700/200r4 swaps? I'll be sticking to the th350c I think. I'll give napa a call to see if they have something for the lockup converter for me. I'm a little wary of any napa electrical stuff though,,,they do not allow returns of any electrical items.. the last I knew.. so if there's something wrong with it its your tough luck. I learned the hard way with a defective set of points many years ago and never go to them since, except as a last resort. Not that a set of points was breaking the bank...it's just the principal. I don't like to do business with people that don't stand behind what they sell.
Hmmm, yeah ... some stores get pretty anal when it comes to the "No return on electrical parts" thing.

It really should read "No return on ELECTRONIC (solid state) parts".
Put it this way ... I wouldn't hassle you on a set of $10.00 points. It's pretty easy to visually check them. If you had installed them, there would be a mark from tightening the screw ... and/or if they were overheated and blue, they'd be your little souvenir, etc.

I had a guy bring back a $150.00 VW ignition coil a couple of months ago ... claiming that he hadn't installed it. It passed the "stink" test, but it had been marked by the coil wire clip. When I 'called' him on that he sheepishly admitted to trying it ... and that it didn't make any difference.

I decided to send it back to NAPA on a "goodwill" claim, and told him that I'd refund his money as long as NAPA deemed it to be in "re-saleable condition". They did, and I did.

Moral of the story? Tell the truth to begin with, and perhaps the counter guy will work WITH you. Respect is a 2-way street.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2012, 06:36 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ha....and so how would you know the points were defective unless you tried to install them and they wouldn't open? Is that a catch 22? You got some points checker thingie that can verify them before you try to put them in? That would be bogus reasoning in my book. Nothing solid state about a set of strictly mechanical points. I guess I never had trouble with such a simple part from anywhere else and had to try to return the junk. I got another set from a reputable parts house and had no issues. The defect was strictly mechanical in nature. There was no arcing as they never opened at all...the cam follower wouldn't make contact with the cam at all. I guess you must be a napa guy or something, sorry if it hit a nerve with you...it hit mine a long time ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:38 AM
Hot Rod Has Been
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Age: 65
Posts: 187
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Not trying to make this all about NAPA and returns but you often get better treatment if you are a regular customer.

I can return almost anything at the two stores I buy from...but O'Reilly's? Not a chance. Since they are the highest priced in town they seldom see me.

Most stores around here also do not take back any electrical returns.. starters, alternators, ignition, etc. You own it once you bought it. But, again, I can get away with a better deal as can most shops and repair guys.

Good luck on your swap...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2012, 07:58 AM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencely
ha....and so how would you know the points were defective unless you tried to install them and they wouldn't open? Is that a catch 22? You got some points checker thingie that can verify them before you try to put them in? That would be bogus reasoning in my book. Nothing solid state about a set of strictly mechanical points. I guess I never had trouble with such a simple part from anywhere else and had to try to return the junk. I got another set from a reputable parts house and had no issues. The defect was strictly mechanical in nature. There was no arcing as they never opened at all...the cam follower wouldn't make contact with the cam at all. I guess you must be a napa guy or something, sorry if it hit a nerve with you...it hit mine a long time ago.
Yes, I am a "NAPA guy".
I suggest that you might want to re-read what I posted.
I said that I *would* take them (the points) back.

The "points checker thingie" is my eyes (and fingers)...
I also said that I *don't* hassle my customers one the return of "electrical" parts. (i.e. points, switches, signal flashers, trouble lights, etc)
Firstly ... because I don't believe that it's worth a potential confrontation over a lousy $10.00 part. Secondly, I try to put myself in the customers shoes. Most of us DIY-ers are not professional technicians and tend to make some poor diagnostic decisions from time to time ... I *get* that.

I have a few very simple, common-sense rules (IMO) when it comes to returns.

1.) If our store sold it to you, and there is no doubt in my staff's mind that it's in resalable condition ... we'll take it back.
2.) If it came from our stock ... there will be no re-stocking charge.
3.) Non-stocked items ... You will pay what I pay in regards to re-stocking and freight charges (in both directions), and will be subject to any of the supplier's rules. If they say it's non-returnable ...

IMO ... we have a very FAIR return policy. You may want to reconsider painting EVERY NAPA store with the same opinion brush. I'm just sayin' ...

I'll also say this again.
Quote:
Respect is a 2-way street.
Yesterday 05:33 PM
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:23 AM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo56
Not trying to make this all about NAPA and returns but you often get better treatment if you are a regular customer.

I can return almost anything at the two stores I buy from...but O'Reilly's? Not a chance. Since they are the highest priced in town they seldom see me.

Most stores around here also do not take back any electrical returns.. starters, alternators, ignition, etc. You own it once you bought it. But, again, I can get away with a better deal as can most shops and repair guys.

Good luck on your swap...
Good point in regards to regular or at least "repeat" customers.

Another little secret ...
If I get some guy that comes in furious and throwing a fit ... bad-mouthing us to everyone in line and promising to never darken my door again ...
I'll take him at his word.

A promise is a promise, after all.

I really do believe in being given the chance to work it out reasonably and fairly.

I feel the same about a mechanical repair complaint...
Take it back to the shop that did the repair, and give them the chance to "make it right". Don't go back waving a bill from some other garage and expect reimbursement, because 9 times out of 10, you won't be getting it. Right?

Hmmm ... in regards to returns of starters and especially alternators.
That's getting to be a tough one.

Years ago an alternator was a $25 to $50 unit ... and had an external regulator. If it passed the "sniff test" and there were no signs of arcing or blueing on the terminals ... I'd probably take it back. Back in those days, we also used to have an electrical test bench ... where a 2-minute test could verify that it was operating normally.

Nowadays ... alternators are getting to be much more expensive and complex. I'd have to know and trust you before I'd consider taking it back.
A $10,000.00 / month account? Yes, no question.

Last edited by 66GMC; 04-08-2012 at 08:33 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2012, 08:58 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey guys, I guess I have thrown a pall over all of napa over that incident. I have dealt with other napa's and with electrical parts for a golf cart when I was camping up north, solenoids to be specific and they did allow me to test and return to get the right part. The points thing happened locally and I was a regular up to that point, with my 100$ bombs back in those days ... beleive me,,,I was in their store plenty. I seriously doubt that your eyes would have told you that these points were defective in their manufacture and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck putting points in a car either. One of the touchiest cars, point wise, I ever owned was 64 belvedere ex-interceptor car with a 383 4 sp and dual points....they had to be on the money or it just didn't' run right,,,a bit of a pain but when she was on, there wasn't many that could compete. And that was several years before I had this 71 318 cuda to replace the points in....like I said, I bought another set someplace else and had no issues so I take some offense to your insinuation that I don't' know what I am doing. Restocking? Resaleable?? I hope not, defects are defects...once discovered it should be no contest. Not that I am perfect...I am human and I make mistakes...I am also man enough to own up to them too. It appears as though you are saying it doesn't matter if an electrical part is defective, once you buy it the deal is closed. I had to buy some expensive starter motors in the past few years and can tell you that I would never accept a bad motor that cost me 150$, I use the best defense I can by charging expensive parts. Then if there's a problem I have the charge card to back me up in case I run into problems and better yet...my wife pays those bills with money I don't have to come up with. I never asked my local private parts store or advanced auto what their return policy was on such items but assumed that if I had a problem they would take care of me. I hope I never have to find out. There's nothing worse than disassembling your car to do a job and having the defective parts and having to put it all back together again and trying to do it all again later with hopefully good parts. Advance has a habit of giving the wrong parts it seems sometime but their return policy works for me. You have a better policy than my local napa dealer does or did..like I say //I don't go there except as a last resort. Burn me once, shame on you...burn me twice, shame on me. It's been like 30 years now and they have missed my business since then for the most part. I also work on other peoples cars...usually fixing things instead of just replacing,,,very few fix anymore,,,just throw new parts at it until the problem is solved. I'm sure you have the trust of your regular customers and wish you well in the future, my trust got broke and in the words of the famous designer, Mr Schmidt..when a rattlesnake bites me I don't pat him on the back. And remember respect is a two way street. I'm not a rocket scientist but more of an elephant I guess...I don't forget things easily.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:21 AM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
I take some offense to your insinuation that I don't' know what I am doing.
Where the "H-E-double hockey-sticks" did I say THAT?

Quote:
It appears as though you are saying it doesn't matter if an electrical part is defective, once you buy it the deal is closed.
Perhaps English is not your first language?

Quote:
Restocking? Resaleable?? I hope not, defects are defects...once discovered it should be no contest.
I'm pretty sure that you're just TRYING to be argumentative ... but you do realize that there is a difference between returnin a *NEW* part versus returning a *DEFECTIVE* part ... don't you?

Last edited by 66GMC; 04-08-2012 at 09:28 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:35 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ok thats enough of that,,,this is not a group therapy session,,,we're supposed to be talking car talk here. napa burnt me...i wrote them off. lets just accept that and move on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Edelbrock to Q-jet conversion Mertz Engine 16 10-15-2009 01:58 PM
Edelbrock performer or edelbrock thunder avs? eric32 Engine 1 09-07-2009 11:25 PM
Comparing 2 Edelbrock carbs ....EDELBROCK PERFORMER and AVS THUNDER Calderone Engine 6 09-28-2008 09:24 AM
Edelbrock Conversion MI2600 Engine 4 07-23-2007 10:17 PM
Edelbrock E-Tec Heads vs- Edelbrock Rpm`s. KeithB123 Engine 3 10-26-2004 06:39 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.