87 dodge mini ram (3.0L) - running rich? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2005, 03:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
87 dodge mini ram (3.0L) - running rich?

Sorry for more q's on this 87 dodge mini ram van 3.0L v6 (also known as a Voyager i think).

So it's parked in my carport and when I start it up its shooting out black crap from the exhaust (little bit each time cold start lets say). Now there's visible black spray marks on the concrete where the exhaust is.

I assume this is a pretty bad thing, what would be all the causes for this. i just assume it's running rich?

I also get a small stumble sometimes when hitting the gas (eg - from a dead stop to moving)

If so what parts will I be look into if I'm running rich?

What other issues could this be?

I just am trying to diagnose to try and fix myself (short on $) and hoping you can guide me on all I should check.

I change the oil regularly, reg maintanance, just gave it a full tune-up and timing was set. It drives ok (except for a little stumble on initial gas). Eats fuel a bit more now though.

thanks for any help

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2005, 04:28 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
You could be running a bit rich. However I imagine a lot of that is condensation mixing with the black residue left by exhaust gasses inside the exhaust piping.

What type of engine is this? Carbed? EFI? The more details, the better.
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2005, 04:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3.0L v6 - EFI (1987)

Not long ago, I just did a tune-up, replaced the Oxygen sensor, reg oil changes.

The oil looks fine on the dipstick (no probs there). Van runs ok.
New cat converter about 2-3 months ago btw.

But, spitting out black crap now (and REALLY getting smelly and rank) out the exhaust.

I also suspect the fuel regulator due to being able to smell (abnormal) fuel when it's idling...but I have no idea how to get to it or take that off.

It could be more than running rich (sensors bad - but which ones??).

thanks for any help guys
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2005, 11:43 AM
35chev/302gmc's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bradford Ontario
Age: 56
Posts: 156
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3.0

Check to make sure the map sensor is getting a good vacuum signal, or try a good known map sensor. You may have a fuel regulator problem, try disconnecting the vacum line to it and try it. Or a cooent temp sensor. You should have it scan tested to see what fault codes it spits out.Good luck.
Ron
__________________
1935 chevy,masters
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2005, 03:35 PM
willowbilly3's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Body mods
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
Age: 61
Posts: 1,208
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have seen those with bad routing on the vac hose to the map sensor. It gets condensation in the loop that hangs down. You do need to get a scan, everything else is just guessing and throwing parts at it which isn't the smart way of fixing anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2005, 02:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, I got a scan done ($78.00???). The outcome were the following fault codes:

Problem: running RICH and spitting out black soot (especially upon cold start to warmup and revving engine). You could see "black smoke" upon revving the engine and the fuel smell was heavy in the exhaust.
* Also leaking a little water at cold start/warmup which I suspect to be
"old car" condensation, I don't see it much after I've been driving though.

Codes found:

- code 24: TPS sensor
- code 13 (or 14) Map sensor basically
- code 51: O2 sensor stuck at lean condition

The mech thought however that after all the tune-up work I had done and adding a new cat and O2 sensor this last spring...that the computer just needed resetting. He reset and the computer and the "black smoke/running rich" seemed to go away...but after driving a while I could feel and tell it came back (it did - code 51, and showing black smoke when quick revving)

I found decent prices on a TPS and Map sensor so I just went ahead and replaced both myself (just wanted to - these parts were old and prob due for replacement). I checked all vac lines/routing to make sure they were in good condition as well.


* I had him check the fuel pressure too as I suspected the fuel pressure regulator and the fact my fule pump is loud (making a loud whirring noise all the time when running - it has for many years).
Spec fuel pressure should be 36psi, mine checks out at 29psi.
He suggested replacing both pump and pressure regulator at the same time eventually before I get stuck dead in the water....but his price quote on the part and install was way too high (I already researched feul pumps and best prices...his was nearly triple the price and the labor was standard $75.00/hour). I said I would buy the parts.

I'll be picking up a new pump and regulator soon. I'd like to try and install these myself. Is this really difficult in this model (v6, 3.0L 87 dodge mini ram van/caravan)?

It's still running rich (I can tell and smell it - the exhaust is potent!). Help??

Questions now....

- Do you think this fuel pressure (fuel pump/pressure regulator) is the reason the O2 is reading lean (terefore constantly running rich)? Do you think this is the final culprit after changing the other sensors?
Is 29psi that bad and a sign to get a fuel pump and pressure reg asap?

- Do you guys think the O2 sensor (new last spring) needs replacing? I hope not (another expense), it's not old at all, and I didn't take it out and use any solvents on it, etc.
Should I try and clean it or blow it out with air?

Notes: Along with a new Cat and O2 sensor last spring, I did a full tune-up (new wires, plugs, air/oil filters, reg oil changes, tranny fluid change, cap, rotor). Now I put in new TPS sensor and MAP sensor.

thanks
Joe
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
running rich and no advance 85mustang Engine 6 02-02-2006 09:57 PM
Dodge 1987 mini ram van (cargo) - info help? joe99 Engine 8 02-04-2004 11:33 AM
Mustang problem, running rich Speedwagon98 Engine 2 10-07-2003 08:54 PM
Need help -- SBC running rich all of a sudden jodz Engine 6 09-05-2003 08:59 AM
Rich Running 400 Sbc Help !!!!!!!!!! Sampson Engine 4 07-01-2003 09:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.