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Old 06-30-2004, 01:25 PM
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'87 tpi to carb

i hope someone here can help me I am looking at getting an 87 tpi engine and converting it to carbed from my swap can i just get a new intake and carb or and i hear dist. and put it on or is there alot of steps im missing
thanks for any help

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Old 06-30-2004, 07:04 PM
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If they have centerbolt valve covers you need the 87- up intake or you can cut out the center bolt holes on an older style intake to make it fit. should be a fairly easy swap.
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Old 06-30-2004, 07:10 PM
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??????????????

[color=lightblue][size=3]Doc here

My question here is WHY?
The TPI is far superior to the Carb...

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Old 06-30-2004, 08:52 PM
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I second that. Why? You can get equal to and plus some in power and still mantain great gas mileage.

Anyways 87 and up they went to a differnent setup on the valve covers and you will need to get it machined to work. Just rip out all the electrical stuff as you wont need it. You will need a new distributor and have to plug some holes where the knock sensor and stuff went. You will also have to change the fuel pump to a low pressure pump and plug off your return line unless your carb has provisions for it. Also have to seal up any EGR stuff that is still left (which there might not be any after you take off the TPI manifold).
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Old 06-30-2004, 08:56 PM
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I think he is getting a TPI motor out of something and swapping into something that doesn't have TPI, right new custom?

Anyways if so, he wont have to worry about any wires or fuel pump regulator.
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Old 06-30-2004, 09:01 PM
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So your taking a TPI motor out of something, taking off the TPI, and then putting it into something that was carbed? If thats the case then it should be a really easy swap.

However again, the TPI is a great system and given the little bit extra time and little bit of money I would take a look at putting that in instead. I replaced the carb on my 66 pickup with a TPI setup and would never go back. 35+ more HP just from the swap with the stock ignition, crappy air filter (wheras it was a KN with the carb and full MSD ignition before) and 4mpg more.
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Old 06-30-2004, 09:05 PM
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I know this should be more about answers than questions, but why would you do this? GM TBI setup is far superior to a carburated setup.
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:45 AM
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sorry i should have been more specific i have an '85 mpfi v6 camaro right now. and i can get an '87 350 tpi motor to swap out my v6 for. the real reason i want to go carb to to get rid of all the elctronics. i want to make the engine bay really clean and simple and the more stuff the harder it is.
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:21 AM
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It doesn't get much simpler than a tune port injection setup. With a little care in how your run the wires, you can make the tpi setup look every bit as clean as a carbureted setup (plus the tpi intakes look nicer). You're only talking about a handful of extra wires to deal with. 8 injector wires, 3 or 4 air flow sensor wires and thats about it as for the stuff under the hood. The 02's are easily hidden under the car. The stuff that makes older oem cars with fuel injection look like crap are all the vacuum lines. If you don't let the initial trepidation of something that you are not familiar with yet deter you, you'll be much happier when you get your swap done.


My 2001 Mr2 is a lot easier to swap the engine/transmission in than my 55 Chevrolet. This is largely because once the engine harness is disconnected, you don't have to monkey with random wires. Anything electrical just comes out with the motor.
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:01 PM
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Swap

[color=lightblue][size=3]Doc here

My Opinion and advise, is take the harness and Computer with the swap. Hook it all up as a TPI Set up again. You'll be far better off with that system (performance wise and economy wise) Than the other way around. and it's not that much extra work.

I Don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, But here, Gas is $2.85 a gallon and their talking about it going to over $3.00 a gallon by the end of summer.

ALSO Bear in mind you have to pass Your State Smog test to renew your Tag, Your rules may differ, but here in California, they'd raise the hood for the visual and fail it on the spot as "Modified" not acceptable.

This happened to me on one of my Corvettes, and Ended up costing me (including testing prices) $6100.00 to renew The Smog to "Modified, Acceptable" and 13 trips to the State Referee.

Until such time, The vehicle Could not be driven at risk of possibility of Seizure By the local mounties..Your State Laws may differ, but here they are the strictest in the country as far as smog Values (Smog Check II, performed on a dyno pull, and has to have very very low numbers to pass.)

Food for thought, Dude... No Need for self induced nightmares..

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Old 07-02-2004, 07:57 AM
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thanks for the advice. im not worried about smog theres always ways around that stuff i think im gonna wait though and get the setup i really want vs. picking up this deal i found that i might need to rebuild anyways
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Old 07-02-2004, 06:26 PM
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[color=lightblue][size=3]
Doc here:

It must be a lot easier in your state than in California!

Cuz here, If you want to drive it on the street, You Must pass Smog before Getting your tags!

If your Registration is Expired up to 180 Days, They Impound the Car for a mandatory 30 days at a cost of $40 A. Day to get it back.

If the Reg is 180 Days or Over and they catch it they Seize it... and you don't get it back!

The Smog guys are (and rightly so) So afraid of the penalties that No "Slack " Is given to anyone... High fines and jail time...Besides the fact NOW they have so much invested into the Equipment (the Dyno runs $80.000 to $100.000 Alone) To lose the License, would surely put them into bankruptcy.

CALIFORNIA SMOG II Started July 15 2003

(and this is just stuff I know.. I'm sure there is more..)

The Test invoked here, (California Smog Check II) Can't Be Fudged anyway...The Technician Has NO control over it! (Which, Besides lowering the emissions numbers, lower than EVER, I'm sure was a point of why they invented to it. )

The Test here, Consists of The Visual,

(Must comply with All Equipment supplied with the Vehicle at the date of manufacture, or be type accepted as compliant. I.E. Q~jet Changed out for a Holley Clone is acceptable..)

NO After-market Rodding Equipment is allowed, Except those specifically designed to meet California Smog standards.

(And those are Day~am far and few in-between..)

Every Vacuum Hose MUST be hooked up and The Item it Goes to must function.

The Vacuum circuit must Match
(or be equiv. to the Vac Diag on the hood)

The Fuel cap is pressure tested and must not leak.

The Timing is Checked And Must be right on.

Most of that is probably standard where you live too.. but then we go on..

The Car is then pulled into a service bay onto a Dyno.

The registration card is Scanned into the Test Station Computer Via the Bar Code on the registration Card and paper Vin plate (if it still has one)..

The Station Computer Then links into the Main Computer At DMV Sacramento..and selects the proper Test Program for that exact vehicle.. while that is happening,

The tech enters the results of the Visual into the system.. Pass, Fail or Modified...

Then he hooks up an Inductive probe to any plug wire, inserts the sniffer into a pipe (s) then gets into the Car.

He Does an Oxygen "Clear" for X..amount of seconds...Puts the Car in gear, and with a remote control, turns the test on...

The rest the computer does, including telling the tech which speeds he must run at on the Dyno..The numbers,

(and I really don't know what they are),

Are very, very low..like Minimum Fed Standards and no higher, compared to prior years..I had several that passed before on previous years that will no longer pass..

Based of your results of the Visual (assume all passed) The Computer now Crunches the Numbers on Emissions ..This has been said to be the longest 5 minutes of my life wait for the Results...

Depending on your numbers the Cert Comes back in one of 3 categories... PASS, FAIL OR GROSS POLLUTER...


A Fail is no so awfully bad because you can fix and re~run the test anywhere they legally offer the test...

If you end up on the GP list, you just might want to consider the Value of the Car Before going on...Cuz your gonna spend a Buittload of Cash to make it right. and the state will offer you up to $1500 to crush it...

You Can't Just go to a smog Station anymore...The State Registration Computer Locks You out from Future Testing, So you must go to a State referee Station only. You must make an appointment in advance.

(given the amount of "New" GP's Can take up to weeks or months)

These Guys, (test only) Can not / Will Not work on the Car, (by law) and perform the Visual LAST as compared to the other way around.

This means, EVEN If you pass emissions, with good numbers, your not out of the woods yet. You Can Still fail because a Hose fell off the Vacuum Circuit.Or so little as a "One time Flash" of the Check Engine light...If it comes on at all during the test it's an auto fail.

The Referee is Much more Picky than the regular testing stations...I had mine fail at one point because The Heater motor Was Stuck on in low, and was Causing a High drain on the charging system at low RPM, (at least that's the excuse I got) I was told to go home disconnect it, and come back.

Another time was because All the Gauges in the Dash panel were "Swinging " From 1/4 scale to 3/4 scale...I was told to repair that and return. Neither of the above, were accepted by the computer until repaired.

They won't tell you what is wrong if you fail, just that you failed, how to read the cert, and to fix it and return.

If you go to a REGULAR testing station (before GP status) You will be well advised to run a Pre~Test, then the regular test. Both Get recorded with DMV, but the Pre test does not count against you.

I'D advise this on every car older than a few years old, tested here. Because you get a "Save" Should it come GP over the Regular test.

BUT each test here is $89.00 + Cert + Tax... or $120 a pull on the dyno.. or for pre and regular test, $240 a shot...win lose or draw. If you do just a Test, you could very well end up on the GP list...

I am not a California Smog tech, nor have I the desire to be one, Basically everything I uncovered here is from 13 trips to the State Referee on a GP... or $1,560.00 in testing fees Alone, (since pre tests weren't run...you can't get worse than a GP...)and $4,700.00 in parts that I really didn't want or would make the car go faster.. and I'm sure there is even more to this I haven't found out.. but those are some of the nightmares here..

Total Smog:$6,260.00

There are no Exemptions EXCEPT for vehicles over 30 years old, OR a one time exemption For a period of 2 years to bring the vehicle into Compliance.. If you can't do that, you will not be allowed to register it again in California. BUT No Street Rod exemptions or the like...everybody complies!

I am told in some states, they just plug in the Computer and if you don't get any codes your gold.. Don't know if that's true but would be nice if it was!

If you register it out of state, to avoid Ca Smog...prepare to become a Rolling target For CHP and local law enforcement, and the minute your Non~resident grace is up (6 months I think) your off the road ,or they'll take it off the road via impound...



============================================
FOR CALIFORNIA GUY'S THAT WANT TO CHECK THEIR OFFICIAL SMOG STATUS

BTW you California Guy's... you can check the Status of any vehicle past smog history by going here and entering the plate number.. very helpful on buying a used one!

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/vehtests/pubtstqry.aspx


============================================



So be sure when you say "I can get around the smog thing...you really can! "

Here they are VERY AGGRESSIVE about smog.

Doc
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