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Old 06-02-2011, 08:12 PM
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882 or 993? which is better

OK, I bought a block today just for the heck of it. It is a 39700010 so a good block, but it came with 882 heads on it. I am lookin for some 993 heads because my machine shop guy says thats the route I wanna go. I want to run 350-375 hp on pump gas and keep C/R at 9.5. Do I just keep the heads and forget about the 993's. I bought the motor for 100 bucks so I couldn't resist. If I wanted to sell the whole motor what's it worth? The motor isn't stuck by the way. I plan on building up a motor to move a 66 impala, so closer to 375 the better!!!

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Old 06-02-2011, 09:06 PM
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Would you be interested in a list of parts that would make 356 hp and 422 ft/lbs of torque with the 882 heads?
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:33 PM
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I guess not.
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:41 PM
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As far as the heads are concerned, neither. They are wheezy smoggers. They make nice doorstops or wheel chocks
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:05 PM
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If you want to build a 375 hp 350 don't use either of these cylinder heads.

Get some L-31 #062 or #906 vortecs or some other high perf cylinder head with 58/-64cc chambers + big(er) ports and valves.

If you are cheap and/or poor, but not afraid of porting work, dig up some #4416 305HO heads and fully home port them and add larger 1.94x 1.60 valves.

350 L-98 aluminum (#113) or cast (#083) are some other good factory OEM cylinder head starting points, just add home porting.

Lots of aftermarket stuff... "SR" heads will benefit with hand porting before bolting them on..

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 06-03-2011 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
I guess not.
Heck w/him- I'D like to hear it, if you don't mind...
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Heck w/him- I'D like to hear it, if you don't mind...
Sure Mark, glad to oblige....
This build is for the fellow who is absolutely cash-strapped and needs a motor for a heavy car or truck using the stock converter and stock rear gear and needs to run it on cat-pea pump gas. It assumes that the fellow has a standard bore 350 block that needs cut to +0.030" and a set of 882 heads. If the heads are stock 76cc, the static compression ratio is 9.0:1
Summit hyper pistons....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-17350-30/
Stock crank, rods, pushrods, retainers, stamped rockers.
Crane 113502 Zcam flat tappet hydraulic cam kit (includes lifters)....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-113502/
Installed 3 degrees retarded. Timing events @-3 (-7, 33, 43, -5)
Crane 99848-16 valve springs. Stock diameter, install at 1.700" with fresh seals.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99848-16/
RPM intake...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7101/
650 Edelbrock AVS rebuilt...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1805/
1 5/8" long tube headers

RPM HP TQ
1500 104 365
2000 149 391
2500 187 392
3000 234 409
3500 281 422
4000 319 419
4500 347 405
5000 356 374
5500 314 299
Peak volumetric efficiency 86.5% @4000
Peak BMEP 179.1 @3500

Last edited by techinspector1; 06-03-2011 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:03 AM
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Thanks. That's bound to come in handy for someone. Especially when they see a detailed run-down of what parts are needed.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Sure Mark, glad to oblige....
This build is for the fellow who is absolutely cash-strapped and needs a motor for a heavy car or truck using the stock converter and stock rear gear and needs to run it on cat-pea pump gas. It assumes that the fellow has a standard bore 350 block that needs cut to +0.030" and a set of 882 heads. If the heads are stock 76cc, the static compression ratio is 9.0:1
Summit hyper pistons....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-17350-30/
Stock crank, rods, pushrods, retainers, stamped rockers.
Crane 113502 Zcam flat tappet hydraulic cam kit (includes lifters)....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-113502/
Installed 3 degrees retarded. Timing events @-3 (-7, 33, 43, -5)
Crane 99848-16 valve springs. Stock diameter, install at 1.700" with fresh seals.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99848-16/
RPM intake...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7101/
650 Edelbrock AVS rebuilt...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1805/
1 5/8" long tube headers

RPM HP TQ
1500 104 365
2000 149 391
2500 187 392
3000 234 409
3500 281 422
4000 319 419
4500 347 405
5000 356 374
5500 314 299
Peak volumetric efficiency 86.5% @4000
Peak BMEP 179.1 @3500
Is this based on some computer engine simulation or a actual dyno test of a real engine?
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:06 AM
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Dynosim 4.2
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:38 AM
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Well numberous real dyno tests on very similar 350's using 882 heads indicate your sim is about 40hp and 30ftlbs too generous. AT Least.

Been there, done that. The 882 heads really really really suck.

If this was a real engine built exactly as you discribe, using 882 heads, tested on a real dyno it would be hard pressed to make more than 295hp.

Put vortec heads (or something as good as) on it (all else the same at a 9:1 cr) and the power curve would be very, very close to what you posted.
(A larger cam and 750 carb and 9.8:1 cr will push it to the desired 375 hp)

Garbage in = garbage out.

The 993 casting (wether the early or late/recent Hecho en Mexico version is actually the better of the two castings. But not by much.
They will need some port work and more cam to get to 350hp.

Compared to everything else you could choose from, they stink too.


The GM 350HO and 350ZZ4 crate motors are good examples of motors that make a real 350 hp and 400+ ft/lbs torque.

The 350HO/330hp rated crate motor usually dynos 20 hp higher than GM rates it at.

Replace either dyno proven motor's good cylinder heads with 882 garbage heads the power and torque will take a steep, steep dive.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 06-04-2011 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Dynosim 4.2
IIRC, don't you use a "correction factor" of some sort? I seem to recall that you reduced the advertised head flow of aftermarket heads a certain percentage to try to bring the published figures in line w/the real world. Do you also use something like that in the case of OEM heads?

AFA "garbage" goes, I see a LOT of numbers- AND engine combo's- on this board bandied about that I consider BS, so at least you're in good company.

Regardless of the actual output, I DO believe the 'recipe' presented above very likely represents an optimized combo for those type heads. So even if the numbers can be argued as being high- the combo itself is valid IMO.

Last edited by cobalt327; 06-04-2011 at 07:40 AM.
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